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Old 09-21-2015, 07:50 PM
Status: "A solution in search of a problem" (set 27 days ago)
 
Location: New York Area
34,600 posts, read 16,654,539 times
Reputation: 29753

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Stonewall Inn National Park? New York Lawmakers Debut Proposal

GLBT rights have their place. Giving everyone rights allows people to be themselves. Also, equal rights allows everyone to contribute to society. Obama went a bit far when he said, at his Second Inaugural on January 20, 2013:

We, the people, declare today that the most evident of truths — that all of us are created equal — is the star that guides us still; just as it guided our forebears through Seneca Falls, and Selma, and Stonewall; just as it guided all those men and women, sung and unsung, who left footprints along this great Mall, to hear a preacher say that we cannot walk alone; to hear a King proclaim that our individual freedom is inextricably bound to the freedom of every soul on earth.

It is now our generation's task to carry on what those pioneers began. For our journey is not complete until our wives, our mothers, and daughters can earn a living equal to their efforts. Our journey is not complete until our gay brothers and sisters are treated like anyone else under the law — for if we are truly created equal, then surely the love we commit to one another must be equal as well.
Sorry to inform you, Mr. President, Senator Gillebrand and Congressman Nadler, Stonewall was no Seneca Falls or MLK March on Washington. According to the June 29, 1969 New York Times (the day after the riot)(link):
The young men threw bricks, bottles, garbage, pennies and a parking meter at the policemen, who had a search warrant authorizing them toinvestigate reports that liquor was sold illegally at the bar, the Stonewall Inn, 53 Christopher Street, just off Sheridan Square.

*************

Arrested in the melee, was Dave Van Rank, 33 years old,
of 15 Sheridan Square, a well known folk singer. He was accused of having thrown a heavy object at a patrolman and later paroled in his own recognizance.
The March on Washington was beautiful for its pacifism and reflectiveness. This riot may have been necessary; it was not the equivalent of the beautiful events to which it is compared. It is a very bad idea to cheapen either a glorious event as the March on Washington or a horrific one such as the Holocaust.

Last edited by jbgusa; 09-21-2015 at 08:55 PM..
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Old 09-21-2015, 11:27 PM
 
2,974 posts, read 1,974,598 times
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it's Dave Van Ronk, chummed around with Dylan in the village in the early '60's...sorry, i have no opinion on the rest of the post
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Old 09-22-2015, 04:20 AM
Status: "A solution in search of a problem" (set 27 days ago)
 
Location: New York Area
34,600 posts, read 16,654,539 times
Reputation: 29753
Quote:
Originally Posted by justus978 View Post
it's Dave Van Ronk, chummed around with Dylan in the village in the early '60's...sorry, i have no opinion on the rest of the post
That be the same David Van Ronk. My point was not that the police raids were appropriate or non-discriminatory, but that the response was a riot.
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Old 09-22-2015, 04:52 AM
 
Location: On the Beach
4,139 posts, read 4,506,043 times
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A wonderful riot!
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Old 09-22-2015, 07:31 AM
Status: "A solution in search of a problem" (set 27 days ago)
 
Location: New York Area
34,600 posts, read 16,654,539 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nurider2002 View Post
A wonderful riot!
How is a riot wonderful? What ideas does a riot express?
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Old 09-22-2015, 09:05 AM
 
Location: Stasis
15,823 posts, read 12,410,878 times
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If you are going to characterize Stonewall as just a riot then remember that the American Revolution was started by hooligans and rioters - Boston Massacre, Boston Tea Party, Gaspee Affair......
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Old 09-23-2015, 05:20 PM
 
7,573 posts, read 5,291,958 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katzpaw View Post
If you are going to characterize Stonewall as just a riot then remember that the American Revolution was started by hooligans and rioters - Boston Massacre, Boston Tea Party, Gaspee Affair......
Damn you! I was going to post that!
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Old 09-23-2015, 06:45 PM
 
46,841 posts, read 25,778,697 times
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Anyone look up a local, contemporary article on the march in Selma? Something tells me the words "pacifism and reflectiveness" weren't front and center..
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Old 09-23-2015, 08:59 PM
Status: "A solution in search of a problem" (set 27 days ago)
 
Location: New York Area
34,600 posts, read 16,654,539 times
Reputation: 29753
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
Anyone look up a local, contemporary article on the march in Selma? Something tells me the words "pacifism and reflectiveness" weren't front and center..
One has to compare what was said and what happened at those two events. Selma was a march and the marchers were instructed not to harm the police. Stonewall was a haven for illegal activity, and the police were harmed. As far as the Revolution was concerned remember, the Tea Party was illegal, ended in a war, and resulted in regime change. The lawful authorities have ever right to contest that.
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Old 09-24-2015, 11:53 AM
 
46,841 posts, read 25,778,697 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
One has to compare what was said and what happened at those two events. Selma was a march and the marchers were instructed not to harm the police. Stonewall was a haven for illegal activity, and the police were harmed.
The Selma march was a haven for illegal activity as well - the marchers illegally defied police orders. The major difference was that the marchers had at least some support in the public and in the press. Beating black women with batons suddenly gave the police a bad image. Beating up gays was a great big joke in the 70s.

Or, to put it in simpler terms: Peaceful protest was not an option.

The gays in Stonewall Inn just wanted to be left alone. They weren't marching, they weren't protesting, they were just there, being who they were. Even that was denied them. So when lawful authorities pushed - violently - they pushed back. Good on them.
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