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Persians are an ethnic group with in Iran. Iran is a country. Not all Iranians are Persian. Not all Persians come from Iran - some left Iran a long time ago and settled in different countries. It's not hard to understand.
Oh, I distinguish them - very much so. I see a big difference say between a Tadzhik/Uzbek from Central Asia, and an Arab from the Gulf states.
Perhaps you do, but the average Muslim hating American does not. Most could not tell you the difference between Sunni and Shia, Saudia Arabia and Yemen, and they can't even understand who the Sikhs are.
Although all people living in Caucasian Mountains are "Caucasians" (I use this word in the same sense as you do,) the inhabitants of Northern Caucasus are quite different from the rest. Their culture ( vs the culture of the rest of Caucasus,) is very similar to Arab culture and it happened to be so, that in 6-7th centuries Islam has been brought to Caucasus "by fire and sword" by Arabs. So I always suspected that Northern Caucasus was the place where the remnants of Arab tribes have settled. Even for a reason that is is the second "hot spot" after the Gulf countries, that produces radical Islam and suicide bombers.
You can suspect what you like, but that does not make it true. I disagree with your supposition.
You are aware of some facts. But not all of them, so it's not about "educating you" in particular.
But overall if I'd state my opinion on Islam - it's a dangerous thing, a dangerous philosophy that can't be contained that easy. And as a believer I can only add that it's here to control the Christendom, and it can't be removed/destroyed unless there will be a decision made from above.
Ah, the Christendom, so you're one of those folks. Like when the Christendomsent wave after wave of armies to expel them from the "holy land?" Or the Moors (oh, and the Jews) being expelled from Spain? Like that? Yeah, thankfully, America isn't the Christendom and God doesn't pick and choose countries God likes. You were speaking pretty intelligently there for awhile, and then you completely went off the rails. Too bad.
Persians are an ethnic group with in Iran. Iran is a country. Not all Iranians are Persian. Not all Persians come from Iran - some left Iran a long time ago and settled in different countries. It's not hard to understand.
" Persians have generally been a pan-national group often comprising regional people who often refer to themselves as "Persians" and have also often used the term "Iranian" (in the ethnic-cultural sense)[citation needed]. Some scholars, mechanically identifying the speakers of Persian as a distinct ethnic unit (the ‘Persians’), exclude those Iranians who speak dialects of Persian. However, this approach can be misleading, as historically all ethnic groups in Iran were collectively referred to as Iranians or Persians until 1935, when Rezā Shāh formally required foreign countries to call Persia by its native name, Iran.[26]
Perhaps you do, but the average Muslim hating American does not. Most could not tell you the difference between Sunni and Shia, Saudia Arabia and Yemen, and they can't even understand who the Sikhs are.
OK, but I DO understand why "average Muslim hating American" doesn't care much and puts them all into the same category.
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You can suspect what you like, but that does not make it true. I disagree with your supposition.
Why, you are familiar with the culture of the North Caucasus?
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Ah, the Christendom, so you're one of those folks. Like when the Christendomsent wave after wave of armies to expel them from the "holy land?" Or the Moors (oh, and the Jews) being expelled from Spain? Like that? Yeah, thankfully, America isn't the Christendom and God doesn't pick and choose countries God likes. You were speaking pretty intelligently there for awhile, and then you completely went off the rails. Too bad.
Of course America is part of Christendom - i.e. one of the countries whose culture is based on Christian religion, whether we like it or not.
As for God "picking and choosing the countries he likes, " - sorry but yes he does; they are just not the same all the time.
Too bad I've been a disappointment for you, but hey - I've tried)))
Actually, no, you are incorrect. I don't need a wikipedia quote, thanks though. Persians are a people, Iranians are people who are citizens of Iran. Are you going to tell a Turkish family living in Iran that they are Iranians only and their ethnic background no longer exists? Or would you tell a Persian family that has lived in Greece for two generations that they are Greeks only, and their ethnic background no longer exists?
If my family is Jamaican and I was born in America, am I still Jamaican or am I American only?
OK, but I DO understand why "average Muslim hating American" doesn't care much and puts them all into the same category.
Yes, I understand it too. It's called bigotry.
Why, you are familiar with the culture of the North Caucasus?
Yes I am. Are you?
Of course America is part of Christendom - i.e. one of the countries whose culture is based on Christian religion, whether we like it or not.
As for God "picking and choosing the countries he likes, " - sorry but yes he does; they are just not the same all the time.
Too bad I've been a disappointment for you, but hey - I've tried)))
As for your last paragraph, keep it in the Religion forum. You can't argue things like ethnic background and then jump to fairy tales and expect to be taken seriously.
I don't think anyone disagrees with going after the 15-25% radicals. Obama's waged very successful military campaigns against the worst of them.
Where people take issue is when some Americans have a knee jerk reaction and throw all the rest of the 75-85% of Muslims in the same category as the dangerous ones.
Probably because they sit back and say nothing. Maybe because of fear, maybe because of agreement. The silence is deafening. So all of this wah, wah, wah about 'us poor Muslims' is crap. Somehow the phrase ... Put up or shut up ... comes to mind.
Actually, no, you are incorrect. I don't need a wikipedia quote, thanks though. Persians are a people, Iranians are people who are citizens of Iran.
As you could see for yourself "Persia and Iran" are used interchangeably. If in YOUR book "Iranians are people who are citizens of Iran" - that's in YOUR book only. But really Iranians who live in Turkey are still just that - Iranians, ( because the place of origin of their ancestors is Iran - it's just that simple.)
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Are you going to tell a Turkish family living in Iran that they are Iranians only and their ethnic background no longer exists? Or would you tell a Persian family that has lived in Greece for two generations that they are Greeks only, and their ethnic background no longer exists?
If my family is Jamaican and I was born in America, am I still Jamaican or am I American only?
See the answer above.
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OK, but I DO understand why "average Muslim hating American" doesn't care much and puts them all into the same category.
Yes, I understand it too. It's called bigotry.
Very well then - I am a bigot and I am not afraid to admit it. I do not like muslims, because I don't like Islam ( although I do sympathize with some of them, mostly with women of course.)
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Why, you are familiar with the culture of the North Caucasus?
Yes I am. Are you?
Then tell us about the differences between the culture of Northern Caucasians with, say, Georgians. Or Azeris for this matter.
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Originally Posted by MoonBeam33
As for your last paragraph, keep it in the Religion forum. You can't argue things like ethnic background and then jump to fairy tales and expect to be taken seriously.
You've brought the matter of god's "likes and dislikes" here yourself ( although it's not a "religion" forum.)
Yet now you are all worked up when I've responded))))
Very well then - I am a bigot and I am not afraid to admit it. I do not like muslims, because I don't like Islam ( although I do sympathize with some of them, mostly with women of course.)
You've brought the matter of god's "likes and dislikes" here yourself ( although it's not a "religion" forum.)
Yet now you are all worked up when I've responded))))
Actually, no, you said this:
"But overall if I'd state my opinion on Islam - it's a dangerous thing, a dangerous philosophy that can't be contained that easy. And as a believer I can only add that it's here to control the Christendom, and it can't be removed/destroyed unless there will be a decision made from above,"
You brought the Christianity and the Christian God into the discussion, no one else did. You responded to my post to another poster about the fact that there have always been Muslims in America and you wanted to get nit-picky about where the Muslims came from, as if that made some sort of difference. And then you wanted to split hairs about ethnicity and country of origin.
You don't like Islam, fine. But you are also a self admitted bigot and your bigotry is based on a false assumption. If you're ok with that, then good for you. Doesn't mean I have to agree with anything you say.
"But overall if I'd state my opinion on Islam - it's a dangerous thing, a dangerous philosophy that can't be contained that easy. And as a believer I can only add that it's here to control the Christendom, and it can't be removed/destroyed unless there will be a decision made from above,"
You brought the Christianity and the Christian God into the discussion, no one else did. You responded to my post to another poster about the fact that there have always been Muslims in America and you wanted to get nit-picky about where the Muslims came from, as if that made some sort of difference. And then you wanted to split hairs about ethnicity and country of origin.
No I did not. Those are your own assumptions. God is god according to all three Abrahamic religions, Islam including.
And yes, I am nit-picky about where muslims come from, because as practice shows us, there IS a difference.
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You don't like Islam, fine. But you are also a self admitted bigot and your bigotry is based on a false assumption. If you're ok with that, then good for you. Doesn't mean I have to agree with anything you say.
Let's look at definition of what "bigot" is;
"a person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions."
No woman in her right mind will accept the tenets of Islam, that put woman "a degree lower than man" with all the following consequences.
So call me a "bigot," but I have no tolerance for Islamic teaching.
(And of course you don't have to agree with everything I say.)
No I did not. Those are your own assumptions. God is god according to all three Abrahamic religions, Islam including.
And yes, I am nit-picky about where muslims come from, because as practice shows us, there IS a difference.
Let's look at definition of what "bigot" is;
"a person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions."
No woman in her right mind will accept the tenets of Islam, that put woman "a degree lower than man" with all the following consequences.
So call me a "bigot," but I have no tolerance for Islamic teaching.
(And of course you don't have to agree with everything I say.)
Yeah, actually, you did. That's why I quoted you. You brought Christendom (Christianity) into an argument that had nothing to do with it. If you want to claim the Abrahamic God, then you should have no problem with Islam as it is the same God. Either it is the same God, or it isn't.
You say no woman would accept Islam because of the above tenet, and yet Christianity also teaches that women are below men too. Hmmmm, very interesting the somersaults people will go through.
Regardless, neither of us have to agree with each other, but I am a stickler for accuracy and I will quote people when needed when they say stuff and then say they didn't. I will call people out on their hypocrisy or when their stories don't match. I have no time for intellectual dishonesty.
Yeah, actually, you did. That's why I quoted you. You brought Christendom (Christianity) into an argument that had nothing to do with it. If you want to claim the Abrahamic God, then you should have no problem with Islam as it is the same God. Either it is the same God, or it isn't.
I am not sure what part you don't understand. Even if it's "the same god," all three teachings are different and one ( if he/she has a choice that is) might prefer one to another.
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You say no woman would accept Islam because of the above tenet, and yet Christianity also teaches that women are below men too. Hmmmm, very interesting the somersaults people will go through.
When it comes to marriage and ability to preach in church - yes. So in my eyes it's more acceptable than teachings of Islam. Therefore no "somersaults" here. ( You are not very familiar with a subject, are you?)
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Regardless, neither of us have to agree with each other, but I am a stickler for accuracy and I will quote people when needed when they say stuff and then say they didn't. I will call people out on their hypocrisy or when their stories don't match. I have no time for intellectual dishonesty.
....if I were her, I would be worried about being physically attacked on the street just because she is obviously muslim
Oh, yeah.
That happens all the time.
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Originally Posted by MoonBeam33
This post is pure, pure ignorance. There have ALWAYS been Muslims in the US, from slavery to yesterday.
Oh, I know!
Millions and millions of them.
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Where do you think all those Persians and Iranians in California came from, hmmm?
Gee, I guess it must have been from Iran.
Am I guessing right?
Most of them came here after the Shah was deposed and replaced by the Ayatollah Khomeini in 1979.
But I guess you're right -- a whole bunch of them were here during the American Revolution.
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Muslims in America are demonized now the same way Japanese were demonized in America after the bombing of Pearl Harbor.
Oh, I know!
I see them beaten in the streets by young white guys who look like Eddie Haskell from "Leave it to Beaver" all the time!
Shocking, just shocking.
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It seems your the one who needs some education, not those talking about how things have changed.
I award the "Most needs education" prize to those who get the most "roll-eyes" icons from me for one post.
So far, you're the winner!
Last edited by dechatelet; 09-28-2015 at 05:21 AM..
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