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I'm not having a book club talk with someone that hasn't read the book.
What's the second word on the second page of the CDC findings report?
The second word on the page numbered 2, rather than ii is "communities"- please don't play childish games. If I tell you I read something and I quote from it, I flippin read it.
So how are they able to suppress the independent research by non-governmental agencies ? Why not collect and publish at least the available and reported self defense data in cases where nobody was killed ? Whose lapdog in Congress made that possible ?
One more time, just for you. The FBI can not report on data that is not provided to them. In order for that to happen they would have to require every Police Dept. to collect that data, my guess is that they are not pushing for that because Politicians in some states would object to it.
One more time, just for you. The FBI can not report on data that is not provided to them. In order for that to happen they would have to require every Police Dept. to collect that data, my guess is that they are not pushing for that because Politicians in some states would object to it.
What ? Have you ever look at FBI site with data ? There are dozens of spreadsheets arranged in any which way you can dream of. They have data on every crime under the sun, the race and gender of the victim, the race and gender of the perpetrator, the age group, the weapon used (if a violent crime), this and that.. but all of a sudden collecting data on reported cases of self-defense gun use is too much work ?
The second word on the page numbered 2, rather than ii is "communities"- please don't play childish games. If I tell you I read something and I quote from it, I flippin read it.
Then what's the range of DGU's they found, and from how many separate studies? You seem to focus on the Kleck study and ignore all others.
Please quote the CDC study. It's not a game, your rebuttal is incomplete.
What ? Have you ever look at FBI site with data ? There are dozens of spreadsheets arranged in any which way you can dream of. They have data on every crime under the sun, the race and gender of the victim, the race and gender of the perpetrator, the age group, the weapon used (if a violent crime), this and that.. but all of a sudden collecting data on reported cases of self-defense gun use is too much work ?
I will try one more time- DGU data IS NOT collected by law enforcement, it never has been collected, sorry if that upsets you but it's a fact. I am very familiar with what data the FBI collects. But since it seems you want to analyze more data, here's a very interesting report for you
Quote:
Of over 14,000 incidents in which the victim was present, 127 (0.9%) involved a SDGU. SDGU was more common among males, in rural areas, away from home, against male offenders and against offenders with a gun. After any protective action, 4.2% of victims were injured; after SDGU, 4.1% of victims were injured. In property crimes, 55.9% of victims who took protective action lost property, 38.5 of SDGU victims lost property, and 34.9% of victims who used a weapon other than a gun lost property.
(NCVS is a self-report survey in which respondents are asked about victimizations experienced during the prior 6 months. Data are obtained from a sample of about 90,000 households, comprising nearly 160,000 individuals which are weighted to be nationally representative. Response rates are typically over 85% for both households and eligible persons.) The epidemiology of self-defense gun use: Evidence from the National Crime Victimization Surveys 2007?2011
Then what's the range of DGU's they found, and from how many separate studies? You seem to focus on the Kleck study and ignore all others. Please quote the CDC study. It's not a game, your rebuttal is incomplete.
The results of the CDC data were compiled in the document I referenced, sorry if you didn't know that. But, what I will do is provide you with something else you can chew on for awhile. The second link is particularly interesting because it describes the various scenarios that respondents described as a "defensive gun use"
I will try one more time- DGU data IS NOT collected by law enforcement, it never has been collected, sorry if that upsets you but it's a fact. I am very familiar with what data the FBI collects. But since it seems you want to analyze more data, here's a very interesting report for you
(NCVS is a self-report survey in which respondents are asked about victimizations experienced during the prior 6 months. Data are obtained from a sample of about 90,000 households, comprising nearly 160,000 individuals which are weighted to be nationally representative. Response rates are typically over 85% for both households and eligible persons.) The epidemiology of self-defense gun use: Evidence from the National Crime Victimization Surveys 2007?2011
So every time someone pulls a gun to defend themselves and reports this to police (which I assume does happen) the report is never filed ? Or that report is deliberately not reported to FBI database, unlike all other crimes ?
Geezus I did respond. In the first place law enforcement does not collect DGU data. #2 the FBI reports on data collected by law enforcement. I wish they did report on it & I wish that LE collected the data.
In case you've missed it, here's the copy of a post I've asked you to respond to;
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy
Then following your line of reasoning explain what went wrong in these "gun friendly"states?
Murder rates
Arkansas 6.3
Tennessee 6.4
Missouri 6.8
South Carolina 7.3
Alabama 7.5
Mississippi 8.1
Louisiana 11.6 https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...tate-gun-laws/[/i].
Louisiana has 32% black population.
Mississippi 37%
Alabama 26.2%
A few you omitted:
Washington, DC 50.1 % black population, murder rate 21.8. That's higher than Botswana and about the same as Rwanda.
Georgia, 35% - 5.3
Maryland 29.4% - 7.3
Now let's look at the other end:
Montana 0.4% - 2.1
Idaho 0.6% - 1.3
Wyoming 0.8% - 1.4
Vermont 1% - 1.1
Do you see the real correlation here ? Or should I spell it out for you ?
The states with high percentage of gun ownership may have low crime rate or high crime rate. Most have low crime rate.
The states with low percentage of gun ownership may have low crime rate or high crime rate. Most have high crime rate.
The states with large number of lifetime welfare recipients have high murder rate regardless of gun ownership rate. Most of these are also states with high % of black population because that's who makes up the majority of urban poor. Most - but not all - of these states also have restrictive gun laws - like Washington DC.
The states with low number of lifetime welfare recipients have low murder rates. Most are rural, predominantly white states with historically high percentage of legal gun ownership yet very low murder rates. Such as Vermont, Wyoming, Idaho etc.
The % of legal gun ownership seems to have a lowering effect on murder rates but it's not a profound impact, rather a gradual one. Still, in the past decade more and more states allowed concealed carry and the murder rate kept falling. The murder rate today is about half of what it used to be 25 years ago.
The % of black population has a very profound impact on murder rates regardless of gun laws in that state. All states with highest murder rates are also states with highest % of blacks.
The problem is not guns. It's ghetto culture (which is a combination of mentality, poverty, and complete disregard for law or laws of human society). Some poor Southern states with majority white population also have somewhat similar culture and therefore high murder rates (like Alabama), although nowhere near the murder rates of Washington DC, Maryland or Louisiana. However Idaho, Wyoming, Utah, Vermont all have very low murder rates and very high gun ownership rates. The legal guns are not an issue. The real problem is demographics. But as I said, this is a taboo and they would much rather concentrate on guns than ghettos. They would make a huge deal out of a nut that killed 10 people yet would never acknowledge the problem that takes many thousands of lives every year.
Now, if you have a different way to explain these stats, go ahead. I'd be very willing to hear why the states with highest murder rates have the highest percentage of black population and usually the most restrictive gun laws, while the states with least percentage of black population and very high legal gun ownership rates have murder rates on the same low level as Western Europe.
Why is Vermont very safe and has tons of guns, and Washingon DC has the murder rate higher than many African nations yet the most restrictive gun laws in the nation ?
The results of the CDC data were compiled in the document I referenced, sorry if you didn't know that. But, what I will do is provide you with something else you can chew on for awhile. The second link is particularly interesting because it describes the various scenarios that respondents described as a "defensive gun use"
Your earlier links didn't address the CDC findings. I'm not interested in other people's opinions. I asked you a direct question, what is the range of DGU's in the CDC findings? Not Kleck. CDC. And list all the sources they used, not links to other websites.
I will try one more time- DGU data IS NOT collected by law enforcement, it never has been collected, sorry if that upsets you but it's a fact. I am very familiar with what data the FBI collects. But since it seems you want to analyze more data, here's a very interesting report for you
(NCVS is a self-report survey in which respondents are asked about victimizations experienced during the prior 6 months. Data are obtained from a sample of about 90,000 households, comprising nearly 160,000 individuals which are weighted to be nationally representative. Response rates are typically over 85% for both households and eligible persons.) The epidemiology of self-defense gun use: Evidence from the National Crime Victimization Surveys 2007?2011
Just because you're not aware of DGU data collected doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
I'm more interested in your response to Ummagumma's demographics questions though, so I'm going to step back for a bit.
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