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Vaccinations are not necessary. A healthy diet will prevent the flu, chicken pox and all other diseases.
Sorry, but no. A healthy diet will help someone avoid serious complications and get through an illness easier but it's not going to prevent cases of chicken pox or flu.
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The correlations between autism and vaccines just terrify me. I'm not saying that's the cause, gluten plays a role too in autism but the amount of evidence (Google Andrew Wakefield) showing the connection is staggering.
Once again, you've both missed the point. I can't say I am surprised either.
I am not a legislature, a court, or a government agency. I have not advocated passing a law prohibiting anti-vax people or any other group from protesting, speaking, or demonstrating. This means that you can all relax now. The black helicopters aren't going to swoop down and put you all in a concentration camp.
It all comes down to a simple concept: Just because you can do something doesn't mean that you should.
No, my point is simply that I wish ignorant people would choose not to spread their ideas.
No Mark. We didn't miss your point. You made yourself very clear and we got it. We're not as "ignorant" as you seem to think. You want people who have ideas that differ from yours to zip it. Nice that you've added in some ad homien attacks here to help clarify your stance.
You're against free speech are you? It doesn't surprise me since you are also a proponent of coerced medical interventions which include vaccinations and even forced chemo at least in a recent case involving a teenage girl.
You may think people are making decisions in ignorance but that does not make your opinion true. If you think that you are not susceptible to propaganda I'd say that you're in denial. I'd also say that it is you that is acting out in fear, not those pesky "anti-vaxxers" that you "sort of make room for".
Most "anti-vaxxers" don't engage in public demonstrations or picket the CDC or go on TV. However, if you want people to "keep quiet" maybe you should reconsider your support for mandatory vaccinations and coercive laws. People will stand up for their rights especially when cornered.
Yes, there was a recent case of a teenage girl who was treated for cancer against her wishes and that of her mother. Parents do not have the right to let their children die either because of their ignorance or their religious beliefs, and the girl was not old enough to withhold consent for herself.
Those who decide not to vaccinate are indeed making the decision out of ignorance. Sorry, but internet stories from parents who are convinced, when the evidence says otherwise, that vaccines have injured their children, should not be used to support a decision not to vaccinate.
The irony is that people who are depending on herd immunity to protect their unvaccinated children encourage other people not to vaccinate, destroying that very herd immunity. Really, if you do not vaccinate your children you should shut up. You should want your children to be the only unvaccinated children in your community.
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Originally Posted by Supremebeingg
Vaccinations are not necessary. A healthy diet will prevent the flu, chicken pox and all other diseases.
The correlations between autism and vaccines just terrify me. I'm not saying that's the cause, gluten plays a role too in autism but the amount of evidence (Google Andrew Wakefield) showing the connection is staggering.
A healthy diet will not prevent infectious diseases, and vaccines do not cause autism. Wakefield was discredited years ago.
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Originally Posted by katjonjj
The same risk exists for both injury from the disease and injury from the vaccine. The only difference is in surviving the disease you are immune... usually for life. Unlike injury from the vaccine where you are just crippled.
The principal of the government forcing a consumer to buy a product is wrong. Even among provaccinators.
No, the same risk does not exist for both vaccines and the diseases they prevent. The risk from the disease is many times greater.
No one is forced to vaccinate. You may choose not to do so if you wish.
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Originally Posted by MissTerri
No Mark. We didn't miss your point. You made yourself very clear and we got it. We're not as "ignorant" as you seem to think. You want people who have ideas that differ from yours to zip it. Nice that you've added in some ad homien attacks here to help clarify your stance.
There is no ad hominem in what Mark said.
If you choose not to vaccinate based on poor quality sources, you are not as well informed as you think you are.
Yes, there was a recent case of a teenage girl who was treated for cancer against her wishes and that of her mother. Parents do not have the right to let their children die either because of their ignorance or their religious beliefs, and the girl was not old enough to withhold consent for herself.
Those who decide not to vaccinate are indeed making the decision out of ignorance. Sorry, but internet stories from parents who are convinced, when the evidence says otherwise, that vaccines have injured their children, should not be used to support a decision not to vaccinate.
The irony is that people who are depending on herd immunity to protect their unvaccinated children encourage other people not to vaccinate, destroying that very herd immunity. Really, if you do not vaccinate your children you should shut up. You should want your children to be the only unvaccinated children in your community.
A healthy diet will not prevent infectious diseases, and vaccines do not cause autism. Wakefield was discredited years ago.
No, the same risk does not exist for both vaccines and the diseases they prevent. The risk from the disease is many times greater.
No one is forced to vaccinate. You may choose not to do so if you wish.
There is no ad hominem in what Mark said.
If you choose not to vaccinate based on poor quality sources, you are not as well informed as you think you are.
The risk of complications from these diseases are very low. The stats from the CDC are also skewed. My mom didn't take us to the doctor when we had these childhood diseases and I didn't take my own. It was pretty obvious what it was and the treatment very simple so cases like these were unreported. I can only imagine how many other cases like ours were unreported (especially during times of "pox parties") therefore, the stats are wrong. There is very little risk of complications. Even the CDC pink book has complications at less than 5% (which as I explained is probably high due to lake of reporting). I think you would have a better chance at winning the lottery.
You can believe the misleading information and ignore parents concern for their vaccine injured children as that is your choice. Mandating that parents MUST buy a product in order for their to attend school is unconstitutional.
The risk of complications from these diseases are very low. The stats from the CDC are also skewed. My mom didn't take us to the doctor when we had these childhood diseases and I didn't take my own. It was pretty obvious what it was and the treatment very simple so cases like these were unreported. I can only imagine how many other cases like ours were unreported (especially during times of "pox parties") therefore, the stats are wrong. There is very little risk of complications. Even the CDC pink book has complications at less than 5% (which as I explained is probably high due to lake of reporting). I think you would have a better chance at winning the lottery.
You can believe the misleading information and ignore parents concern for their vaccine injured children as that is your choice. Mandating that parents MUST buy a product in order for their to attend school is unconstitutional.
The risks of complications from vaccine preventable diseases is low only because most people in the US are vaccinated against them and that makes the risk of catching one of the disease low.
If you are going to claim that the information from the CDC is "skewed" you need to tell us exactly which data are "skewed" and provide an alternative explanation. Keep in mind that under reporting results in underestimation of risk, not overestimation.
For chickenpox vaccines, deaths that have been reported are very rare and associated with immunosupression. Since the varicella vaccine is a live virus vaccine, people who are immunosuppressed should be vaccinated with extreme caution with it and other live virus vaccines, and the doctors who treat such patients are well aware of it.
"Serious side effects are very rare. From 1998 to 2013, only one vaccine-related death was reported: an English child with pre-existent leukemia. In some occasions, severe reactions have been reported such as meningitis and pneumonia (mainly in inadvertently vaccinated immunocompromised children) as well as anaphylaxis."
"In the early 1990s, an average of 4 million people got chickenpox, 10,500 to 13,000 were hospitalized (range, 8,000 to 18,000), and 100 to 150 died each year. Most of the severe complications and deaths from chickenpox occurred in people who were previously healthy. Each year, more than 3.5 million cases of varicella, 9,000 hospitalizations, and 100 deaths are prevented by varicella vaccination in the United States. For more information, see Monitoring the Impact Varicella Vaccination."
The article above discusses the decrease in deaths due to chickenpox since the vaccine was introduced and the potential to reduce that number to zero with high two dose vaccination rates. The deaths that continue to happen are mostly in otherwise healthy unvaccinated people.
No one ignores children truly injured by vaccines. The problem is parents who insist their children were harmed by vaccines when there is no scientific support to implicate the vaccine.
The risk of complications from these diseases are very low. The stats from the CDC are also skewed. My mom didn't take us to the doctor when we had these childhood diseases and I didn't take my own. It was pretty obvious what it was and the treatment very simple so cases like these were unreported. I can only imagine how many other cases like ours were unreported (especially during times of "pox parties") therefore, the stats are wrong. There is very little risk of complications. Even the CDC pink book has complications at less than 5% (which as I explained is probably high due to lake of reporting). I think you would have a better chance at winning the lottery.
You can believe the misleading information and ignore parents concern for their vaccine injured children as that is your choice. Mandating that parents MUST buy a product in order for their to attend school is unconstitutional.
The CDC pink book says 30% of measles patients have complications.
Of course there are cases that aren't reported. I don't think my mom took me to the doctor when I had the measles either. It was raging through my first grade class, everyone susceptible was getting it. Plus my mom had been a public health nurse before she got married and had seen plenty of cases of measles. These days, cases are investigated better. Physicians are required to report measles to the public health authorities, and contacts are traced. Are a few cases missed? I'm sure, but not many. These pox parties are mostly an urban legend. I grew up in the pre-vaccine days, as did my spouse. Neither one of us ever attended one such party, let alone hosted on or were even invited one. We grew up 1000 miles apart, me in the Pittsburgh area and him in Omaha. My oldest daughter was 11 years old when the chickenpox vaccine became available, three years after she had the disease. No one I knew was doing those parties, here in the Denver area, another 500 miles from Omaha. We moms all kind of dreaded hearing about chickenpox in the classroom or day care, because it meant our kids would be isolated for a week or more, following a 2-3 week incubation period. There's never a good time for that.
The constitutional issues were resolved over 100 years ago, and upheld many times over.
Of course there are cases that aren't reported. I don't think my mom took me to the doctor when I had the measles either. It was raging through my first grade class, everyone susceptible was getting it. Plus my mom had been a public health nurse before she got married and had seen plenty of cases of measles. These days, cases are investigated better. Physicians are required to report measles to the public health authorities, and contacts are traced. Are a few cases missed? I'm sure, but not many. These pox parties are mostly an urban legend. I grew up in the pre-vaccine days, as did my spouse. Neither one of us ever attended one such party, let alone hosted on or were even invited one. We grew up 1000 miles apart, me in the Pittsburgh area and him in Omaha. My oldest daughter was 11 years old when the chickenpox vaccine became available, three years after she had the disease. No one I knew was doing those parties, here in the Denver area, another 500 miles from Omaha. We moms all kind of dreaded hearing about chickenpox in the classroom or day care, because it meant our kids would be isolated for a week or more, following a 2-3 week incubation period. There's never a good time for that.
The constitutional issues were resolved over 100 years ago, and upheld many times over.
My daughter is a few years older than yours. She turned 11 in 1990. Her doctor recommended she catch chicken pox from another child. Maybe they did not call them "Pox Parties" then but parents would invite their kids friends over when they were sick. They certainly weren't terrified of chicken pox, it was considered a part of growing up, same as having the flu which today is also something to be feared. My neighbor, whose children mine played with, was an RN for a local doctor. I do not remember her ever going around in fear over any of these diseases. Her daughter came over to play with mine when they were sick.
The only thing that concerned parents was their kids were missing school for being out sick, but that could happen just from an accident or sports injury. Do you stop kids from playing or sports because they might get hurt too? After all, that can be PREVENTED too if they just sit inside the house on the computer!
Back in my day, sick children weren't sitting around in doctors offices because doctors went to sick children's homes, including in NYC. I do not remember when I had measles at 6 months or chicken pox at 7 months, but I am sure that the doctor came to my apartment. No, I was not hospitalized for either as an infant having one disease after another. The nearest hospital was only a few streets away. My parents could have literally carried me there. Both diseases were not considered life threatening back then. I do remember my pediatrician coming to my home several times when I had Scarlet Fever at 6 years old. "Dr. Santa" gave me "Bubble Gum" Medicine to take. That was it, not hospitalized with a 105 degree fever either. Today, that would be ambulance and hospital time for all those diseases. Hey, today we have people running to the ER with the FLU! No wonder medical care, and health insurance, has gone through the roof, but that is another topic entirely.
My daughter is a few years older than yours. She turned 11 in 1990. Her doctor recommended she catch chicken pox from another child. Maybe they did not call them "Pox Parties" then but parents would invite their kids friends over when they were sick. They certainly weren't terrified of chicken pox, it was considered a part of growing up, same as having the flu which today is also something to be feared. My neighbor, whose children mine played with, was an RN for a local doctor. I do not remember her ever going around in fear over any of these diseases. Her daughter came over to play with mine when they were sick.
The only thing that concerned parents was their kids were missing school for being out sick, but that could happen just from an accident or sports injury. Do you stop kids from playing or sports because they might get hurt too? After all, that can be PREVENTED too if they just sit inside the house on the computer!
Back in my day, sick children weren't sitting around in doctors offices because doctors went to sick children's homes, including in NYC. I do not remember when I had measles at 6 months or chicken pox at 7 months, but I am sure that the doctor came to my apartment. No, I was not hospitalized for either as an infant having one disease after another. The nearest hospital was only a few streets away. My parents could have literally carried me there. Both diseases were not considered life threatening back then. I do remember my pediatrician coming to my home several times when I had Scarlet Fever at 6 years old. "Dr. Santa" gave me "Bubble Gum" Medicine to take. That was it, not hospitalized with a 105 degree fever either. Today, that would be ambulance and hospital time for all those diseases. Hey, today we have people running to the ER with the FLU! No wonder medical care, and health insurance, has gone through the roof, but that is another topic entirely.
I keep reiterating, I never heard of an actual chickenpox party. I grew up in the 50s as did my husband. From then till the vaccine came out, in three different large cities, plus "small potatoes" Champaign, I never heard of one such party.
Actually, kids are seldom hospitalized these days unless they need the ICU.
The same risk exists for both injury from the disease and injury from the vaccine. The only difference is in surviving the disease you are immune... usually for life. Unlike injury from the vaccine where you are just crippled.
It isn't the "same risk". That point has been made over and over again. We can empirically demonstrate that widespread vaccination has resulted in a reduction of thousands of deaths per year. For example, before they started giving the pertussis vaccine in the 1940's for whooping cough there were approximately 9,000 deaths every year due to this disease. That number has now been reduced to about twenty per year. How can you possibly argue the "risk is the same" when confronted with that data? Do you believe the scientific data that says this is just "made up"? Immunity isn't always for life. Getting the chickenpox gives an adult a one-third chance of getting shingles later in life.
You keep reciting that forcing someone to be vaccinated is "wrong". Yet, you can't cite any legal authority for your opinion because all the authority says that when it comes to infectious disease, mandatory vaccination laws are within the police powers of a state. Why would I think your opinion means more than three supreme court decisions? Tell me, did you even read these cases before reaching your opinion?
I read the article that you cited too. Its hardly impressive. This guy claims to be "pro-vaccine" yet doesn't seem understand the reason for compulsory vaccination laws is to create herd immunity that prevents disease epidemics. Anyone who doesn't understand that really isn't qualified to talk about vaccination issues. The worst thing is not taking away someone's choice to take a vaccine. The worst thing would be becoming lax about vaccination policies and allowing disease epidemics once again.
They are forcing ppl to let them inject them with garbage!! (Stuff that shouldnt be there)
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