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I knew many Muslims from my former job. I cant really make any general statements. Some were smart and hard working, some were not. Some were more conservative than others. One of them became one of my closest friends. She is not devout, her identity as Muslim is more cultural -her entire large extended family and immigrant community (she is 2nd generation) is Muslim - than a belief in its particular teachings. She was a lot moore traditional when I first met her, almost 20 years ago, than she is today.
This is clearly a troll thread. There wasn't a stated point to it. "Hey guys, do you know any..." is not a thread premise.
It's not a troll thread. The reason I started it is because with many of the terrible things going on in the Middle East and parts of South Asia, I saw many very strongly negative comments about Muslims in general. However, if you approach the "Muslim" issue from a different angle (in this case, personal relationships), you get a much different picture. That's what the point of this thread was - to see whether the rhetoric about what we know about Muslims as a group matches our individual experiences.
All you see in central Ohio is the most unattractive black African Somali muslims in their head covered garb driving around in Toyotas and at the supermarket. Not a more offensive sight could there be. If you don't know what the issue is with muslims, then maybe you need to study the Koran and Islam's 1300 year and counting history of violent conquest throughout the middle east, parts of Africa and Asia. they were stopped several times from invading western Europe. Today progressive government are inviting them into Europe to colonize. Muslims are the ignorant religious bigots if anyone is. Muslims persecute anyone non muslim when they have the numbers. Again read their history and their present activities.
Ummmm (lol at this comment BTW), I don't live in Central OH. I don't know any Somali Muslims in NW Ohio (NW OH is near SE MI where we have a very large Muslim population). I know mostly Persians (Iranian), Lebanese, Iraqis, and black Americans who have converted to Islam. We also have been getting some resettled Syrian refugees in the area of late. I am from the Toledo area and we are always a place of resettlement due to low cost of living and due to having a large amount of resources available to help newly resettled people (FWIW, when I was a kid a lot of SE Asian refugees were also settled here who are Buddhist, I wonder if you view them with as much vile....)
But when I lived in GA, I worked in DeKalb County and they have a very large Somali Muslim population. It is the largest outside of Minneapolis, MN in this country and the majority of them were very nice people, especially the teens and young adults. I worked for a contractor who renovated and managed public housing locations in metro Atlanta and so I had a lot of interaction with Somalis.
Again, I am not a religious bigot, which many think is interesting being that I am a non-religious secular humanist. Other people's religion doesn't bother me as I feel that all people have their tradition and reasons for believing what they believe and I am respectful of other people's cultures, religions, and choices.
No Somali has ever done anything to me on a personal level and practically all religions have some sort of horrible, violent past, which is one of the reasons why I have never ascribed to any religion.
Also, from your comments, I can tell you are not well versed in World History. Muslim societies have always been very learned communities and well educated, artistic, and were miles above most Europeans during the era when the Moors invaded Spain. They brought a lot of culture, great architecture and artistic expression to Europe and the Renaissance period in Europe is connected to the Muslim conquest of Europe. Muslims took many European communities out of the dark ages.
You should study some history outside of the bigoted blogs you may be reading about Muslims.
ETA: Forgot to ask...what is so offensive about black Somali Muslims in Toyota at the grocery store? Are you offended because they are black? Are you offended because they have a piece of fabric over their heads? Are you offended by the Toyota? Are you offended because they have the gall to grocery shop?
Sure thing - former and current colleagues. Not that it ever really came up, I don't poke in such matters - just a matter of days off, diet, alcohol etc.
Same here. It just doesn't come up any more than any other religion.
ETA: Forgot to ask...what is so offensive about black Somali Muslims in Toyota at the grocery store? Are you offended because they are black? Are you offended because they have a piece of fabric over their heads? Are you offended by the Toyota? Are you offended because they have the gall to grocery shop?
Weird and telling comments you spewed here.
I asked him about Toyotas - seems he would be OK if they were in a Ford or a Chevy as that would show they are trying to assimilate into American culture
They are driving vehicles that they culturally drive in the middleast and Africa, bought for them by the muslim community activist at local auction with money our government (you) gives them. It's an example, just like their cartoonish native garb advertising they are muslim, of them bringing their culture here and not adopting American culture. So yes if they drove a Chevrolet or Ford it would it would be a sign that they want to be more American.
Well - I know one family. . . knew two, but of course we drifted apart from one.
The one family i'm still friends with. . .I helped him drive from Toronto to Indiana when he took his job. He converted to Muslim (not born) and so its been interesting to see a newly convert kind of fall away from a lot of stuff. I mean when I first knew him he was all about eating the right cheese and other rules. . .
I don't know how up they are with the belief structure now. As any middle class family soccer, play dates, Halloween all get in the way of faith. We met for dinner, he picked a place, and that place happened to be Halal. . .so i'm guessing as a family they still keep to their tradition.
As with anyone else. . .its the gamut, like any religion. Your going to have people who are really into it. . .so much so their faith shapes how they discredit or credit the world to people who are pretty much atheists.
On a side note: Of all of the Muslims I've met and worked with in total, I've never met one that actually supported or thought that terrorist actions were justified.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharks With Lasers
I've known a few. Most of them seem to take their faith seriously, but were otherwise just like everyone else I know. A few appeared to be Muslims in name only - maybe that's more common than we think.
By "everyone else" I mean that they run the gamut in personalities. For example, some were very hard working, while others were kind of slackers.
So does anybody else know any Muslims from their personal experiences?
Also, from your comments, I can tell you are not well versed in World History. Muslim societies have always been very learned communities and well educated, artistic, and were miles above most Europeans during the era when the Moors invaded Spain. They brought a lot of culture, great architecture and artistic expression to Europe and the Renaissance period in Europe is connected to the Muslim conquest of Europe. Muslims took many European communities out of the dark ages.
Somehow I don't think you will ever say the same thing when discussing the way European colonialism took the rest of the world out of the stone age and into the modern era?
Fact is that Islam has always had its sights on Europe. From its beginnings. Coming from Africa and the Middle East, they have never ceased their invasions into Europe. Over and over again throughout history they invaded. Sometimes they succeeded, sometimes not. Always seeking resources, slaves, converts, treasure and land from Europe.
The only time it abated was when the Europeans finally got organized again to start their own conquests and colonial exploits.
Somehow I don't think you will ever say the same thing when discussing the way European colonialism took the rest of the world out of the stone age and into the modern era?
Fact is that Islam has always had its sights on Europe. From its beginnings. Coming from Africa and the Middle East, they have never ceased their invasions into Europe. Over and over again throughout history they invaded. Sometimes they succeeded, sometimes not. Always seeking resources, slaves, converts, treasure and land from Europe.
The only time it abated was when the Europeans finally got organized again to start their own conquests and colonial exploits.
It wasn't just Islamic groups, the pre-Islamic Persian Empire, the Pagan Huns and Alans and later the Tengri Mongols all invaded Europe to varying degrees of success. Likewise the Greeks and the Romans and Crusaders and later the British and French all conquered parts of Middle East and North Africa(and just like Russia expanded eastward into Asia). So it's always been a series of conquests, migrations, and invasions in that part of the world it's been going back and forth since the BC period. If Islam never existed, you'd still have had wars over that part of the world, since it's the invasion route from Asia into the Europe and vice versa and you would've had some other power trying to conquer Europe(possibly Persia again).
It wasn't just Islamic groups, the pre-Islamic Persian Empire, the Pagan Huns and Alans and the later Tengri Mongols all tried to invade Europe to varying degrees of success. Likewise the Greeks and the Romans and Crusaders and later the British and French all conquered parts of Middle East and North Africa. So it's always been a series of conquests, migrations, and invasions in that part of the world it's been going back and forth since the BC period. If Islam never existed, you'd still have had wars over that part of the world, since it's the invasion route from Asia into the Europe and vice versa.
Yes, you're right. But too often people's frame of reference goes back about 300-400 years only to cast Europeans as somehow unique in the world of conquest. They are only unique from three perspectives:
1) They were the most successful;
2) They were the most recent;
3) They originated the idea that empire and colonialism actually isn't something that should be tolerated anymore.
Same with slavery.
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