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Old 12-12-2015, 12:30 PM
 
Location: Florida
77,012 posts, read 47,489,856 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knowledgeiskey View Post
There are ton of Islamic militant groups that are fighting each other in Libya, Syria, and Iraq.If these said groups are fighting in the guise of Islamic tenets, why aren't they under one unified force? This shows you that it's more than just Islam. There are territories and ethnic divides involved.
They are obviously radical islamists, but its not so much about islam as it is about power. Either you swear allegiance to ISIS, or they cut your head off, even if you are a sunni muslim like them. If you are a Christian they might let you go if you pay a fine, but muslims are pretty much dead meat unless they join in. They don't ask you to convert to their denomination, they want you to swear allegiance to ISIS in particular. I read 2 out of 3 ISIS members are there just to save their lives while one 1 in 3 are hard core ISIS loyalists.

Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 12-12-2015 at 12:42 PM..
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Old 12-12-2015, 12:51 PM
 
20,629 posts, read 19,292,640 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knowledgeiskey View Post
There are ton of Islamic militant groups that are fighting each other in Libya, Syria, and Iraq.If these said groups are fighting in the guise of Islamic tenets, why aren't they under one unified force? This shows you that it's more than just Islam. There are territories and ethnic divides involved.
You are correct. Issues of tribalism over ideology. Though there is also a tendency to hate apostates the most. So there must also be that going on. Of course Islam uses the sword to settle these differences more than others with annoying peace making passages that need a work around. WWII was fought between "Christan" countries. Blood is thicker than ideology.
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Old 12-12-2015, 08:22 PM
 
Location: Gone
25,231 posts, read 16,904,691 times
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Northern Ireland Catholics verses Protestants, wars all over Europe in the name of one Christian side or the other. Religions fight among themselves and between each other, not new and not going to be ending any time soon.
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Old 12-12-2015, 09:15 PM
 
26,346 posts, read 14,957,649 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myghost View Post
There are waaaaay too many extreme Islamists, but to generalize it on the whole religion is simplistic, misguided, and feeds into the hand of the terrorists.
A truly moderate Muslim would not hear words like Trump and then be driven to join ISIS that throws gays off of roofs, rapes their slaves, and beheads charity aid workers.

The fact is, yes there are waaaaay too many extreme Islamists, because they are reading the Quran literally and doing so inherently leads one to wage war against us infidels.

Not surprising considering the Prophet was a pedophile-rapist-war-monger-liar.
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Old 12-12-2015, 09:31 PM
 
12,030 posts, read 9,308,385 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganmoon View Post
A truly moderate Muslim would not hear words like Trump and then be driven to join ISIS that throws gays off of roofs, rapes their slaves, and beheads charity aid workers.

The fact is, yes there are waaaaay too many extreme Islamists, because they are reading the Quran literally and doing so inherently leads one to wage war against us infidels.

Not surprising considering the Prophet was a pedophile-rapist-war-monger-liar.
Some Isis folks are simply Quoran literalists. No different than Sola Scriptura bible literalists; but SOla Scriptura folks generally do not kill people even though Leviticus says all homosexuals should die.
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Old 12-12-2015, 10:31 PM
 
Location: Idaho
318 posts, read 435,288 times
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What ISIS Really Wants - The Atlantic
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Old 12-12-2015, 11:03 PM
 
Location: SoCal & Mid-TN
2,325 posts, read 2,645,362 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
Politicians have exploited rifts between religious denominations and sects since forever to achieve goals that have nothing to do with religion.

Religion is a tool.
This is all too true. Catholics and Protestants in Ireland still can't get along for any length of time. I don't think it's the particular religion that is to blame, I think it is a particular type of personality that is prone to radicalism of some kind (and not always religious). Back during the Crusades the Catholic Church promised all who died in battle fighting for the faith would go immediately to heaven (no virgins were mentioned but it's a similar idea with the same appeal - leave the pain and trial of this life behind for paradise)- and I say this as a Catholic.

I have some very dear friends who are Muslims and they are horrified by the terrorism. One of them was actually at the soccer stadium in Paris the night of the attacks - he could easily have been killed if those guys had gotten by security. These folks are totally westernized - they wear regular clothes (the women wear sandals and shorts in the summer!), they don't have prayer mats, and one of the women is a CEO. They are wonderful, kind and generous people. They actually work on their own and in groups to try to educate people about their faith and they openly condemn the terrorists (and they can't stand the Saudis). They don't eat pork but have no problem sharing a meal with you while you eat pork. The don't fit a single stereotype.

Last edited by Spikett; 12-12-2015 at 11:05 PM.. Reason: to complete thought
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Old 12-13-2015, 03:46 AM
 
13,586 posts, read 13,079,043 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myghost View Post
It is all rhetoric, so that the false message below can be justified. Without generalizing and stereotyping you can't get away with scapegoating an entire religion, you can't restrict liberties, and probably most important, an entire party can't get away with cheap soundbites that help them win the vote of an uninformed electorate.



There are waaaaay too many extreme Islamists, but to generalize it on the whole religion is simplistic, misguided, and feeds into the hand of the terrorists.
Have you read the Koran and the Hadith? No?

Most of the peaceful Muslims have never read it in their native language either. They'd likely be appalled if they did.It really is that bad. And it's not just a religion, it's a system of laws and a political identity. I don't understand why people in my own party just refuse to acknowledge this. I guess they just don't want to be hateful and pick on a minority.

It's like Bill Maher is the only one who gets it. It's incredibly frustrating. It's a dangerous ideology that violates every human right that the left holds dear. We have got to find a way to separate the spirituality from the sharia, the jizya, the dominance, the jihad, etc.

People SHOULD be free to worship whatever deity they want. Islam is not just about a deity. As an ideology, it is incompatible with western democratic ideals. Period.

If it's just about the religion, why can't they become Baha'i? Those guys recognize all the Abrahamic religions, but they also preach peace, love, and acceptance.

Would we knowingly let a Nazi move here? No? Then WHY would we intentionally let an observant / conservative Muslim move here? That is a political ideology.
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Old 12-13-2015, 06:43 AM
 
26,346 posts, read 14,957,649 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NLVgal View Post
Have you read the Koran and the Hadith? No?

Most of the peaceful Muslims have never read it in their native language either. They'd likely be appalled if they did.It really is that bad. And it's not just a religion, it's a system of laws and a political identity. I don't understand why people in my own party just refuse to acknowledge this. I guess they just don't want to be hateful and pick on a minority.

It's like Bill Maher is the only one who gets it. It's incredibly frustrating. It's a dangerous ideology that violates every human right that the left holds dear. We have got to find a way to separate the spirituality from the sharia, the jizya, the dominance, the jihad, etc.

People SHOULD be free to worship whatever deity they want. Islam is not just about a deity. As an ideology, it is incompatible with western democratic ideals. Period.

If it's just about the religion, why can't they become Baha'i? Those guys recognize all the Abrahamic religions, but they also preach peace, love, and acceptance.

Would we knowingly let a Nazi move here? No? Then WHY would we intentionally let an observant / conservative Muslim move here? That is a political ideology.
What is more, Obama's great screening measures don't allow us to ask questions that are political or religious in nature to look for radical tendencies.

One screener is being investigated for asking a Syrian refugee what he thought about an ISIS leader.

The idiocy from our government is not just maddening, but it can be lethal as we see one of the San Bernandino shooters passed the screening.
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Old 12-13-2015, 09:15 AM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,390 posts, read 11,575,374 times
Reputation: 7544
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spikett View Post
This is all too true. Catholics and Protestants in Ireland still can't get along for any length of time. I don't think it's the particular religion that is to blame, I think it is a particular type of personality that is prone to radicalism of some kind (and not always religious). Back during the Crusades the Catholic Church promised all who died in battle fighting for the faith would go immediately to heaven (no virgins were mentioned but it's a similar idea with the same appeal - leave the pain and trial of this life behind for paradise)- and I say this as a Catholic.

I have some very dear friends who are Muslims and they are horrified by the terrorism. One of them was actually at the soccer stadium in Paris the night of the attacks - he could easily have been killed if those guys had gotten by security. These folks are totally westernized - they wear regular clothes (the women wear sandals and shorts in the summer!), they don't have prayer mats, and one of the women is a CEO. They are wonderful, kind and generous people. They actually work on their own and in groups to try to educate people about their faith and they openly condemn the terrorists (and they can't stand the Saudis). They don't eat pork but have no problem sharing a meal with you while you eat pork. The don't fit a single stereotype.
It's hard, it is. I've known some very nice people who's choice of belief was Muslim for one reason or the other. The terrorist that shot all their co workers were described the same way. Very nice, peaceful seeming, a new baby where all the workers attended their baby shower and gave gifts to them. They were totally clueless that their lives would end shortly after by those very people.
This is exactly what makes it confusing for people. On top of it there is a divide on what is considered discrimination in this country and what is not.
On one hand you are told to "look" out and around for terrorists. We are told to handle it on our own because the police can't get there in time to save your life. Then on the other hand we are told not to profile or discriminate Muslim people. Not to take issue with their faith as it has nothing to do with who they are or their view of us.....it's enough to make your head spin in circles.

I think most people are just trying to ignore it all and hope for the best. Cross their fingers that the Muslims they work with are indeed free of radical ideas. But, you wonder.

The media is making this into a greater divide for profit. There ratings go up the more they cause a divide. It's a bigger money maker than the actual terrorist event so they have been covering it 24/7. They did the same with the riots earlier this year. It's big biz. Again, making it hard to the typical hard working family member to make any distinction. I'm just blowing it all off for the time being, and crossing the ole' fingers. Meanwhile our sheriff is calling all armed citizens to help battle terror. lol America is definitely and publicly divided on this issue.
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