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Old 12-10-2015, 08:09 AM
 
Location: Pacific NW
9,437 posts, read 7,369,351 times
Reputation: 7979

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lvoc View Post
If however the inventory of guns was reduced to perhaps a few hundred thousand I supect you could get the death toll down to a small percentage of what it is. And you would likely have to put up with some rise in other violent crimes as the criminal set is forced to other mechanisms. But it could well make a substantial reduction in the death toll.

There of course would be a cost. Burglaries would rise. As would some forms of strong arm theft. But overall less fatalities. Worth it? And we could give everyone a pressure can of an indelible die. If attacked give them a squirt. Then they get to explain to the cops why they were colored...
The overwhelming majority of non suicide deaths by firearm are criminals killing other criminals, you really want to save their lives? You want another 8,500 living criminals EVERY YEAR walking the streets committing more crimes and breeding another generation of criminals?

firearm deaths per year 30,000
Minus 61% suicides = 11,700
Minus 60-85% criminals killing criminals (72.5% average)= 3,218
Minus 400 shot by police = 2,818
Minus 300 in legal defensive use of firearm = 2,518

Tragic accidents or innocents murdered with firearms / yr = 2,518

Don't fall for the progressive liberal media hype, there isn't any American epidemic of "gun violence", there are small pockets in mainly liberal cities with extremely high rates but the vast majority of the US is as safe or safer than any other western country.

Of course you're NEVER going to get the 350,000,000+ (plus a lot more) guns in the US down to a few hundred thousand. There are 5,000,000 (yes five million) new guns made or imported in the US every year. And yet the crime rate continues to drop. Why do liberals want to change that?

 
Old 12-10-2015, 08:47 AM
 
12,973 posts, read 15,802,978 times
Reputation: 5478
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haakon View Post
The overwhelming majority of non suicide deaths by firearm are criminals killing other criminals, you really want to save their lives? You want another 8,500 living criminals EVERY YEAR walking the streets committing more crimes and breeding another generation of criminals?

firearm deaths per year 30,000
Minus 61% suicides = 11,700
Minus 60-85% criminals killing criminals (72.5% average)= 3,218
Minus 400 shot by police = 2,818
Minus 300 in legal defensive use of firearm = 2,518

Tragic accidents or innocents murdered with firearms / yr = 2,518

Don't fall for the progressive liberal media hype, there isn't any American epidemic of "gun violence", there are small pockets in mainly liberal cities with extremely high rates but the vast majority of the US is as safe or safer than any other western country.

Of course you're NEVER going to get the 350,000,000+ (plus a lot more) guns in the US down to a few hundred thousand. There are 5,000,000 (yes five million) new guns made or imported in the US every year. And yet the crime rate continues to drop. Why do liberals want to change that?
Nothing wrong with cutting 11,700 suicides in half. The deal is where could you drive the inventory level?

I would think reasonably low over 20 years.
 
Old 12-10-2015, 08:47 AM
 
Location: Jacksonville, FL
11,143 posts, read 10,711,121 times
Reputation: 9799
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haakon View Post
The overwhelming majority of non suicide deaths by firearm are criminals killing other criminals, you really want to save their lives? You want another 8,500 living criminals EVERY YEAR walking the streets committing more crimes and breeding another generation of criminals?

firearm deaths per year 30,000
Minus 61% suicides = 11,700
Minus 60-85% criminals killing criminals (72.5% average)= 3,218
Minus 400 shot by police = 2,818
Minus 300 in legal defensive use of firearm = 2,518

Tragic accidents or innocents murdered with firearms / yr = 2,518

Don't fall for the progressive liberal media hype, there isn't any American epidemic of "gun violence", there are small pockets in mainly liberal cities with extremely high rates but the vast majority of the US is as safe or safer than any other western country.

Of course you're NEVER going to get the 350,000,000+ (plus a lot more) guns in the US down to a few hundred thousand. There are 5,000,000 (yes five million) new guns made or imported in the US every year. And yet the crime rate continues to drop. Why do liberals want to change that?
Because in the liberal mindset, self-sufficiency is a swear word. The entire ideology of modern liberalism is to make people more dependent on the government.
 
Old 12-10-2015, 08:57 AM
 
Location: San Diego
50,288 posts, read 47,043,365 times
Reputation: 34073
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvoc View Post
Actually if one is, as i Am, arguing to reduce the inventory then the suicides go down as well. Well perhaps we need a discussion of what suicide attempters do if they can't get guns. Be really hard to put yourself out with pepper spray.

As to the dye my subconscious has a mind of its own...you never know.
Ya, no one has access to sleeping pills or pain killers along with booze
 
Old 12-10-2015, 09:24 AM
 
Location: Louisiana
9,138 posts, read 5,803,654 times
Reputation: 7706
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvoc View Post
Nothing wrong with cutting 11,700 suicides in half. The deal is where could you drive the inventory level?

I would think reasonably low over 20 years.

That is a complete fantasy.

If someone wants to die, they will.
Removing a convenient tool won't change that.
 
Old 12-10-2015, 10:28 AM
 
Location: Palo Alto
12,149 posts, read 8,418,303 times
Reputation: 4190
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvoc View Post
Actually if one is, as i Am, arguing to reduce the inventory then the suicides go down as well. Well perhaps we need a discussion of what suicide attempters do if they can't get guns. Be really hard to put yourself out with pepper spray.

As to the dye my subconscious has a mind of its own...you never know.

A one shot pistol won't reduce suicide in my opinion.
 
Old 12-10-2015, 10:30 AM
 
Location: Palo Alto
12,149 posts, read 8,418,303 times
Reputation: 4190
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
Ya, no one has access to sleeping pills or pain killers along with booze

Or bridges. Or cliffs. Or razor blades. Or suicide by cop. Or cyanide capsules online. Nope.
 
Old 12-10-2015, 10:31 AM
 
13,898 posts, read 6,445,026 times
Reputation: 6960
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrapperJohn View Post
Or bridges. Or cliffs. Or razor blades. Or suicide by cop. Or cyanide capsules online. Nope.
Or just plain old rope or a belt or extension cord, etc.
 
Old 12-10-2015, 11:18 AM
 
12,973 posts, read 15,802,978 times
Reputation: 5478
You folk protest too much. I did not suggest that the suicides would be eliminated. Just cut in half. And some outcome like that would be likely. I also don't mind making the killings done by bad guys less effective.
 
Old 12-10-2015, 11:24 AM
 
Location: Southeast Michigan
2,851 posts, read 2,302,319 times
Reputation: 4546
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvoc View Post
You folk protest too much. I did not suggest that the suicides would be eliminated. Just cut in half. And some outcome like that would be likely. I also don't mind making the killings done by bad guys less effective.
As I said, your "solution" is to cut the number of legally owned guns while doing nothing to cut the number of illegally owned ones. Making it easier for the criminals to attack innocent people with impunity. So the violent death rate will go up, not down.
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