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Old 12-03-2015, 12:40 PM
 
9,530 posts, read 6,669,948 times
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The OP has conveniently disappeared!
A lightweight?
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Old 12-03-2015, 12:41 PM
 
Location: Iowa, USA
6,554 posts, read 3,268,493 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hakkarin View Post
I won't pretend that I am in any way neutral when it comes to my political opinions because I am not, and I seriously dislike leftist ideas, regardless of if it is socialism or the more moderate social-democracy.

One of the biggest reasons is that leftists strike me as just being hateful people who hide behind political ideals when unleashing their hate. A great example is how much leftist ideas focus on the idea of fighting and struggle. Almost all leftist claim the reason the world is bad is because of group this or group that. "The patriarchy", "the capitalist", "the big corporations", "the racists", "the sexist", the whatever. I have almost never (if ever?) been able to have a debate with a a leftist where they don't insist that a vital part of their platform is the defeat of some group they claim to be evil. Sure they also claim that they want to make people equal, but they almost always without fail also fallow such claims up with some variation of "BUT FIRST we MUST defeat the evil blah blah blah...".
Before I go into your list, I'm going to viciously criticize this insane load of ****.

Identity politics is an American issue. It's not the left or the right; it's American politics because it's not intellectually tasking. It's accessible to anyone. Yes, the left does it, but you are either arrogant or delusional to believe the right doesn't also. They all do it. "it's the socialists" "it's the leftists" "it's the unions" "it's the immigrants."

It also happens outside of America, so I shouldn't be too aggressive about our system, but it is excessively dumbed down. Our debates are BS. Our politicians are BS. Go watch just a small portion of the last Canadian debate for Prime Minister. Tell me the difference. America politics is entertainment. They play the 'it's their fault' game because 1) any idiot can understand it and 2) it's super easy to do.

Just to show the extent that identity politics can go, Hitler rose to power because of the accessibility of identity politics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hakkarin View Post
So if you want to prove me wrong, here is a challenge to those of you with leftist believes:

1. Describe the basic premise of your leftist ideology (mention if it's socialism, social democracy or other leftist variant, and what it's about).
I don't really have a word for my ideology. I try to avoid attaching labels to myself because when one does this, people make assumptions about what you believe. I am politically left though for a variety of reasons. I firmly believe that corporations manipulate our political system and this is pure evil. It must stop and we must have an even playing field for all people when it comes to elections. Money should not buy votes.

I also believe in things like a safety net (yes, there are people who abuse it and we should address that), social liberty, free speech, freedom of (and also from) religion, a transparent government, a non-interventionist foreign policy, and having an honest media.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hakkarin View Post
2. Describe why you believe your ideology would benefit society.
For the sake of speed, I will answer this question in regards to my most important issue, which is classism.

I think that a free country requires that each and every individual have equal say on who is elected. Money should not influence who is in government or what government does. Money should not buy power. A truly free state puts limits on people who wish to abuse others. And I'm sure you and I agree that freedom is important.

And for clarity, I am not against the existence of class, but against one class having dominance over the other. This also means I'm against some basic principles of Communism, like the dictatorship of the proletariat.

Since you said you may respond, feel free to ask about my other views. Just know my big one is that we having a ruling elite that makes decisions for us which is why the American revolution was fought.
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Old 12-03-2015, 12:52 PM
 
1,376 posts, read 1,002,355 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCCCB View Post
The cost of food is so high that the average dress size in Europe is 0-2. As an example, here in a ma and pa Italian place a large plate of spaghetti and meat balls costs you maybe $9. In a socialist country you pay $28 and the portion Is about a third of the American one. So in fact you are paying there $28 for a $3 amount of food in America.
You're full of spaghetti on this claim... You don't pay $25 Euros(with the current exchange rate) for some cheap plate of spaghetti in Italy. You must have been eating in expensive places or tourist rip-off joints...the price of eating out can be more expensive in Europe, but it's not 3 times more expensive.

Also people are slimmer in Europe not because of the price of food, but it's a more urban society and people take more pride in their appearances than in much of the US. People dress better on average also.
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Old 12-03-2015, 01:02 PM
 
9,857 posts, read 7,009,424 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
Shortsighted, but you have a point. Without successful capitalism we cannot have socialism. As long as we are in the jungle we will fight for what we need to survive.
That is not true, they in Europe have come from the other side which is communism. Many came from there and are still stuck in socialism (which is communism lite) trying to make it's way to real Capitalism.
As an example, Italy can't get to becoming more Capitalistic because they have a big communist party, unions, socialist all of whom believe in big government control of the people.


So though we in America with leftist leaders like Obama are sinking toward socialism by way of our own communists, socialist and unions the other side is trying to rise from the mess we are heading towards.


Europe is rising from, and leftist people in America are attempting to drag us to socialism or communism.
Which is why you are going to get a President Trump. Our people are more than fed up.
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Old 12-03-2015, 01:03 PM
 
9,530 posts, read 6,669,948 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDusty View Post
Since you said you may respond, feel free to ask about my other views. Just know my big one is that we having a ruling elite that makes decisions for us which is why the American revolution was fought.
Exactly!

And the sad story is that many poorly educated underemployed struggling republicans go out of their way to support the agenda of the elite that controls Washington DC.
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Old 12-03-2015, 01:15 PM
 
Location: Michigan
369 posts, read 154,561 times
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1. I'm a moderate liberal economically, an extreme liberal socially. I favor a basically capitalist economy with a reasonable safety net (a little more expansive than the safety net we have now, but nothing like total equalization of income.)

2. It benefits society to minimize sickness, idleness, lack of opportunity due to disadvantages of birth...even Justice Clarence Thomas would not have had a chance but for social programs. To write off people who are born disadvantaged is like flushing gold down the toilet.

3. There's a role for conservatives to play in vetting liberal ideas; not every single liberal program is going to be a worthy one, and when one doesn't cut the mustard, conservatives ought to call them on it.
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Old 12-03-2015, 01:32 PM
 
9,530 posts, read 6,669,948 times
Reputation: 2482
Quote:
Originally Posted by RCCCB View Post
Which is why you are going to get a President Trump. Our people are more than fed up.
Trump favors National Health Care, a socialist program.

You are stuck in the current climate of us versus them. You need to look into the future; a truly advanced society has overcome all this stuff.
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Old 12-03-2015, 02:05 PM
 
Location: Overlook Hotel 1921
1,651 posts, read 1,632,690 times
Reputation: 2832
Quote:
Originally Posted by hakkarin View Post

If you can do this successfully, then perhaps I will take your ideas more seriously than I did before, but otherwise I won't.
Nobody cares.
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Old 12-03-2015, 02:58 PM
 
Location: PA
5,560 posts, read 4,965,924 times
Reputation: 1945
I will sum up this world and life.
1. If you can get others to pay and work for you and do nothing most of human nature will submit and agree to this. This is why for the simple minded and human nature of those who love government to use human nature of jealously and security after years of king and queen rulers they believe choice to live as a king and queen off everyone else is acceptable. You find this in Rich people and all classes.

2. Once this continues down this path and the ones working and or support the non working go broke revolution and a war starts over the who has something the dependents revolt demanding to continue to do nothing.

3. The balance to have those working to support and provide for their loves ones see this a noble ownership. To not depend on the king and queens and or find other solutions with their own hard work, not ever working for someone else. Those who feel stuck working for the kings and queens demand government to take from the kings and queens from wealth and or government benefits.

4. Human nature has people who are submissive and the dominate who want control of their own lives or others. TO defend themselves, to not submit to government majority rule if the ruling class can take from the mouth of your children and your home. I believe liberal, socialist in nature are the submissive types who use the force of the many to get what they believe they are what is best for themselves. Usually at the expensive of whatever they deem the KING and QUEENS of the day. It only follows their inner need to be taken care of nothing more. These people are best helping other of their own free will then demanding force and fairness on their terms with government.
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Old 12-03-2015, 03:03 PM
 
12,050 posts, read 11,113,050 times
Reputation: 9999
False advertising. There is nothing remotely "interesting" about the challenge you present.
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