Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Yes, in Christianity the Old Testament is bloody and the New Testament is relatively peaceful.
Quran is exactly the opposite, chronologically when Muhammad started his religion he was saying peaceful verses, and when he had more followers and went on raids to kill Unbelievers he was saying the violent verses.
Also, if the two founders could only be described by one word:
Jesus - hippie
Muhammad - terrorist
Why is Muhammad a terrorist? Jesus was no hippie. He was fierce in his message to the Jews.
Yes, the KKK and IRA were Christian issues, but today they aren't nearly as powerful or relevant as Islamic terror.
That is because we passed laws making KKK outlaws and prosecuted the hooded thugs. But lives of black people is still hard because racism is pernicious in America. Ask them whether KKK is alive and kicking unhooded. the IRA and the Isrealis taught the world that terrorism works.
Some of them do 'own it' to some extent. I saw a Muslim woman on television today arguing with another - and I don't remember their names.
Anyway, she was stating that it is MUSLIM's who can call out the perversion of Islam and those who are perverting it - better than anyone else. She specifically called out Saudi (the Mecca) and the radicalism there.
Now the other Muslim spokeswoman was more along the lines of - if one white, male Christian shoots up a Church - we don't automatically 'assume' that ALL Christians are on board.
Some of them do 'own it' to some extent. I saw a Muslim woman on television today arguing with another - and I don't remember their names.
Anyway, she was stating that it is MUSLIM's who can call out the perversion of Islam and those who are perverting it - better than anyone else. She specifically called out Saudi (the Mecca) and the radicalism there.
Now the other Muslim spokeswoman was more along the lines of - if one white, male Christian shoots up a Church - we don't automatically 'assume' that ALL Christians are on board.
Might of been the same report I saw.
This one has a solution to solve the problem.---- she was stating that it is MUSLIM's who can call out the perversion of Islam and those who are perverting it - better than anyone else. She specifically called out Saudi (the Mecca) and the radicalism there.
This one is a distraction and muddy ups the conversation and leads to nothing effective.---- other Muslim spokeswoman was more along the lines of - if one white, male Christian shoots up a Church - we don't automatically 'assume' that ALL Christians are on board.
The voice that is starting to finally emerge is coming from Muslims who see the need to reform Islam and put it in the context of the modern world. The Islamist like ISIS want to keep it in the seventh century context and take us back to that time under their rule. So the statement that Muslims need to own it is very much compatible with the few voices who see it as necessary also. Because that is how under the protection of western values they wish to be Muslims and is the only solution for a harmonious society.
Might of been the same report I saw.
This one has a solution to solve the problem.---- she was stating that it is MUSLIM's who can call out the perversion of Islam and those who are perverting it - better than anyone else. She specifically called out Saudi (the Mecca) and the radicalism there.
This one is a distraction and muddy ups the conversation and leads to nothing effective.---- other Muslim spokeswoman was more along the lines of - if one white, male Christian shoots up a Church - we don't automatically 'assume' that ALL Christians are on board.
The voice that is starting to finally emerge is coming from Muslims who see the need to reform Islam and put it in the context of the modern world. The Islamist like ISIS want to keep it in the seventh century context and take us back to that time under their rule. So the statement that Muslims need to own it is very much compatible with the few voices who see it as necessary also. Because that is how under the protection of western values they wish to be Muslims and is the only solution for a harmonious society.
Thats where it needs to go.
The false equivalency between Islamic Terrorism and any other religious group is a drop in the bucket at best. Its just a distraction from dealing with the problem.
Muslims can't conquer the western world if they admit the truth about their religion and their goals.
Coming from someone who absolutely NO idea what Islam Religion is based on..but only what media/politicians chose to declare..and it's NOT based on Islam religion whatsoever!!!
The solution has to come from within the Muslim community, and its not going to happen if they dont take the ownership.
The Muslims need a counter narrative from within their community to what all the Islamists are saying. There is no voice out there that promotes secular values where Women, LGBT, and Minorities are no longer treated as second-class citizens. There is no voice saying that jihad is no longer permissible, and that blasphemers and apostates will not be killed.
But there is a counter narrative out there if one chose to even look..But media choses to dwell on all the NEGATIVE Behaviour of Extremists, who have highjacked a religion.. Maybe some personal research is in order..otherwise you and many other's become a repeater of FALSE narratives being spread....
Quote:
Originally Posted by golimar
Point me to the voices that you claim are out there. I am not talking about the typical Muslim rhetoric "We as Muslims reject ISIS, and it does not represent Islam", rather what I typed in my previous post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by golimar
because it is meaningless, it does not put a counter narrative, it just says that is not the true Islam, which actually is not true.
You may want to listen to some talks by a British Muslim; Maajid Nawaz, and you will understand the difference.
Here is just one of them.
I deleted youtube..as for some who fear/hate/Islamophobic will always be able to find some person who represents that faith ( or whatever is feared/hated) to validate one's claims... We have to remember..the WORLD is full of False Prophets and Pundits..and in 24/7 News Cycle..Populous gets to hear far too much negativity and ZERO or far far less positive side!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by golimar
Violent jihad, martyrdom, treating Infidels as second-class citizens.....is Islam as agreed by Muslim scholars.
A new counter narrative is needed which rejects these values.
Here's a 15 minute explanation to just why you and other Islamophobes are so WRONG!! But somehow I don't think you will even bother to listen to it..It is a very clear explanation why ISIS and it's behaviours DO NOT reflect Islam nor Muslims..also explains why Muslim's are finding it so difficult to deal with 24/7 media who continuously cover negative with very little corrective information to ED-U-CATE the masses!!
The Quran absolutely teaches to kill the Unbeliever.
"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, even if they are of the People of the Book, until they pay the extorition tax (Jizya) with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." - Quran 9:29
Muhammad, the founder and role model for Muslims was himself a terrorist. Sina's Challenge
Unfortunately, you can and has been posted about that the BIBLE too also IF one takes certain citing could indicate that God and Jesus were teaching violence, killing non-believers, kill the sinners and so on....So really..Snippets and out of context quotes from any "Holy Book" can be spun to suit any hatred one choses to validate their particular Hate,,,So not buying what you are trying to sell!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by natalie469
There is much more to the Quran than this but the extremists take it literally. In the old testament of the bible, God would kill you if you didn't believe. I guess you could call him a terrorist too. Yet in the new testament he was all good. Go figure
There is no comparison between Christianity and Islam. The former is a religion, the latter is a fascist political system. Christian and the western culture in general don't systematically butcher the female genitalia of their children, sexually abuse their male children, I could go on and on, but, I am afraid I am wasting my time with the brain dead. Not you, I am sure you are one of the good ones!
If people actually read their Bibles, they would know that it is just as violent and misogynist as the Quran.
Unfortunately, you can and has been posted about that the BIBLE too also IF one takes certain citing could indicate that God and Jesus were teaching violence, killing non-believers, kill the sinners and so on....So really..Snippets and out of context quotes from any "Holy Book" can be spun to suit any hatred one choses to validate their particular Hate,,,So not buying what you are trying to sell!!
It is obviously true that all major religions have had violent periods, or periods in which the religion has coexisted with violence. Even those mellow pacifist Buddhists.
But in today’s context, it’s absurd to equate Islam and Christianity. Pointing to the Spanish Inquisition tends to undermine the point rather than confirm it: if you have to look back three hundred years to find atrocities, it’s because there are so few of them today. The mass crimes committed under the name of Islam, by contrast, are fresh and openly boasted about.
I don’t think the differences between religions make one more valid than another. But as the Charlie Hedbo attack reminds us, there is a big practical difference between them. In fact, the best argument against the equivalence of Christianity and Islam is that no one acts even remotely as if this were true. We feel free to criticize and offend Christians without a second thought, but antagonizing Muslims takes courage. More courage than a lot of secular types in the West can usually muster.
There are also differences between secular law and sharia law. Christianity has its own religious law, laid down by Moses in the Old Testament, though much of it does not survive Christ’s revisions. But Christianity also has a long tradition of coexisting with secular systems of law.
By contrast, Islam recognizes no room for any law other than what was supposedly revealed to Mohammed
So don't compare Christianity and Islam. These are two completely different religion. I have absolutely no problems with peaceful Muslims, but let's not pretend Islam is above any other religions, or free from criticism. and let's certainly not pretend "Oh, Christians are worse or they are just as violent." is the answer of everything.
The Muslims are occupying Infidel countries, the only legitimate Muslim country is Saudi Arabia, and that too is debatable, since the black box in the desert; Kaaba, belonged to the Pre-Islamic Pagans.
Anyways, you probably forgot all about the jihadi Barbary Pirates.
Anyways, you probably forgot about the Constitution.
Again which one of our states is over here. Where in the Constitution does it say to protect others borders?
Quote:
Originally Posted by golimar
"....that it was founded on the Laws of their Prophet, that it was written in their Koran, that all nations who should not have acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as Prisoners" - Thomas Jefferson, 3rd American President
Again which one of our states did they attack?
Quote:
Originally Posted by golimar
"Muhammad declared undistinguishing and exterminating war, as a part of his religion, against all the rest of mankind…The precept of the Koran is, perpetual war against all who deny, that Muhammad is the prophet of Allah" - John Quincy Adams, 6th American President
What part of my post which you quoted didn't you get? Here let me post it again
Strange how they didn't mess with us until we went over there, occupied their countries and their holy lands while killing innocent people. Treat the cause. Bring the troops home and protect our borders like the Constitution says.
Here's some more truths for you which I hope you don't ignore also.
We armed the terrorists. One day they are friends the next they are enemies. They use our own weapons against our military. When those who are serving their country, at a great sacrifice, come home, they don't receive the proper care they deserve. The ones that do come home that is.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
