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Old 12-10-2015, 08:03 PM
 
33,046 posts, read 21,944,895 times
Reputation: 8962

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ringwise View Post
Really. So now they check your bank account before you move? And zoning dictates this? Huh......

Um, do you know how zoning works? Do you know how the wealthiest communities simply don't create land zones for housing options affordable to poor people.

e.g. if the median income is $100k and there is a 1-acre minimum lot size and no multi-unit zoning, poor people aren't going to buy or rent there.

i once lived in a UMC town (top 2% by income) because my wealthy aunt got custody of me, but i was never able to afford it on my own. no apartments at all there except maybe a couple storefront upstairs apartments downtown. with average homes selling for $400k, there was no need for anyone but sellers, Realtors, and mortgage lenders to check bank accounts.
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Old 12-10-2015, 08:06 PM
 
2,691 posts, read 3,097,779 times
Reputation: 980
Quote:
Originally Posted by neko_mimi View Post
Liberals keep parroting meaningless statistics like "The X richest people own Y% of the wealth". My question is, why do you consider this an issue?

Are you saying that you're poor because someone else is rich? Did you ever consider that all the extra wealth they have is wealth that was produced by them or their company? Them generating wealth doesn't somehow make you less wealthy.

Maybe it's time to get over your envy of others' success. It sounds like babies crying about how other children have more toys than them.
Depending on where you look total wealth in this country is $85 trillion in 2015., 59 trillion in 05.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_wealth

According to the Wall Street Journal the top 1% have made most of the economic gains in the recent years.

Some 95% of 2009-2012 Income Gains Went to Wealthiest 1% - Real Time Economics - WSJ

I was looking for 09 and it looks to be about 59 trillion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth..._United_States

To answer your original question, I care because this country is going into debt so a wealthy few pay off congress (the ones with the power of the purse) and line their own pockets. In the meantime most hardworking people with lower incomes are working harder to get by and services get continually cut. This is essentially an elaborate form of theft.

I am more concerned that conservatives are blind to this. Lets balance the budget by all means. But lets make those who have had all the gains while the country goes into debt pay for the debt accumulated.
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Old 12-10-2015, 08:08 PM
 
33,046 posts, read 21,944,895 times
Reputation: 8962
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
2 full time jobs at min wage is near $33K.

They are not eligible for "welfare".

depends on being unmarried, plus how many kids and the distribution thereof.

e.g. a single parent with 2-3 kids and a min wage job probably qualifies for stuff.
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Old 12-10-2015, 08:16 PM
 
66,239 posts, read 30,145,317 times
Reputation: 8606
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
Also..why exactly do you think pensions are underfunded?
A lot of it has to do with losses from the financial crisis. QE has been propping up the markets to avoid a public pension disaster that would negatively impact tens of millions of middle class public employees/retirees. QE didn't just go to the rich regardless of what others may think.
Quote:
"This report focuses on the most recent comprehensive data and does not fully reflect the impact of recent strong investment returns. Because state retirement systems have historically accounted for investment losses and gains over time, the latest data still include losses from the 2008 Great Recession and do not fully incorporate the strong returns of recent years. As recent strong investment returns are fully realized under new accounting standards, preliminary data from 2014 point to a reduction in unfunded liabilities for the majority of states.

...Nevertheless, pension debt is expected to remain between $800 billion and $900 billion for state plans, which increases to more than $1 trillion when combined with the shortfalls in local pension systems, and will remain higher as a percentage of U.S. gross domestic product than at any time before the Great Recession. State and local policymakers cannot count on investment returns over the long term to close this gap..."
The State Pensions Funding Gap: Challenges Persist - Pew Trusts

The Alliance Between Wall Street and Public Unions

Last edited by InformedConsent; 12-10-2015 at 08:25 PM..
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Old 12-10-2015, 08:16 PM
 
2,691 posts, read 3,097,779 times
Reputation: 980
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workfo...real_wages.jpg

Workers have continually been more productive. However the elites have manipulated the system for more of their own gains. (union weakening tactics, capital gains tax cuts etc.)

I have no problem with the hardest workers, the more innovative individuals making more money. I have a problem with people working hard and not being able to care for their families or have time for their families or personal health. A job should pay enough so a person can be accountable for their own, food shelter transportation and health as well as the well being of their offspring. The current system which is perpetuated by a majority of conservative controlled government is failing.
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Old 12-10-2015, 08:45 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 72,290,637 times
Reputation: 27564
Quote:
Originally Posted by odinloki1 View Post
Depending on where you look total wealth in this country is $85 trillion in 2015., 59 trillion in 05.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_wealth

According to the Wall Street Journal the top 1% have made most of the economic gains in the recent years.

Some 95% of 2009-2012 Income Gains Went to Wealthiest 1% - Real Time Economics - WSJ

I was looking for 09 and it looks to be about 59 trillion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth..._United_States

To answer your original question, I care because this country is going into debt so a wealthy few pay off congress (the ones with the power of the purse) and line their own pockets. In the meantime most hardworking people with lower incomes are working harder to get by and services get continually cut. This is essentially an elaborate form of theft.

I am more concerned that conservatives are blind to this. Lets balance the budget by all means. But lets make those who have had all the gains while the country goes into debt pay for the debt accumulated.
It's not individuals paying off Congress. It's corporations and lobbyists getting laws changed.
But that has nothing to do with "wealth". Wealth is the result of investing your money.
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Old 12-11-2015, 12:48 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
22,059 posts, read 10,266,157 times
Reputation: 20103
Quote:
Originally Posted by neko_mimi View Post
Liberals keep parroting meaningless statistics like "The X richest people own Y% of the wealth". My question is, why do you consider this an issue?

Are you saying that you're poor because someone else is rich? Did you ever consider that all the extra wealth they have is wealth that was produced by them or their company? Them generating wealth doesn't somehow make you less wealthy.

Maybe it's time to get over your envy of others' success. It sounds like babies crying about how other children have more toys than them.
First of all, I'm not poor. I make almost double the average annual American wage...even though I'm retired. But I'll still answer your question.

When I was 16 I went down and got a job at the local grocery store. Now I suppose D, B, J, and D were proud of all their work in making their 3 stores thrive. The only problem with that scenario was that they didn't do the work. They didn't build up the business to begin with. Their mother and father did. They didn't stock the shelves, boys like me did...for 50 cents and hour. They didn't bag and carry out the groceries, boys like me did. They didn't sweep and mop and clean toilets, boys like me did. They did run the cash registers (usually), local poor women did. They did shovel the walks or unload the watermelons or catch the cases of food coming off the trucks, boys like me did. They didn't run the meat department, or the produce department, or the deli, or order the dry goods. They just walked around telling everyone how tired they were and how hard they worked.

But, historically, the rich owners of big American business were hated because of how they treated their workers. Whether it was coal being mined in Pennsylvania or Colorado (look up the Ludlow Massacre), they didn't give a **** about the conditions or safety of the men working long, long hours for minimal pay. They were the carriage trade. They had private rail cars. They had the mansions, while they raped the will of the workers through the requirement that workers buy only from company stores (hence "Sixteen Tons"). I could go on.
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Old 12-11-2015, 03:03 AM
 
33,046 posts, read 21,944,895 times
Reputation: 8962
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
A lot of it has to do with losses from the financial crisis. QE has been propping up the markets to avoid a public pension disaster that would negatively impact tens of millions of middle class public employees/retirees. QE didn't just go to the rich regardless of what others may think.
The State Pensions Funding Gap: Challenges Persist - Pew Trusts

The Alliance Between Wall Street and Public Unions

Our tax dollars hard at work?
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Old 12-11-2015, 04:43 AM
 
77,900 posts, read 33,233,798 times
Reputation: 15573
Quote:
Originally Posted by odinloki1 View Post
Depending on where you look total wealth in this country is $85 trillion in 2015., 59 trillion in 05.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_wealth

According to the Wall Street Journal the top 1% have made most of the economic gains in the recent years.

Some 95% of 2009-2012 Income Gains Went to Wealthiest 1% - Real Time Economics - WSJ

I was looking for 09 and it looks to be about 59 trillion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth..._United_States

To answer your original question, I care because this country is going into debt so a wealthy few pay off congress (the ones with the power of the purse) and line their own pockets. In the meantime most hardworking people with lower incomes are working harder to get by and services get continually cut. This is essentially an elaborate form of theft.

I am more concerned that conservatives are blind to this. Lets balance the budget by all means. But lets make those who have had all the gains while the country goes into debt pay for the debt accumulated.
Conservatives? You do realize that this all happened under the Obama administration and the (D)'s are about to vote for someone that will continue the failed policies that lead to this.
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Old 12-11-2015, 04:59 AM
 
20,978 posts, read 16,215,058 times
Reputation: 10270
Quote:
Originally Posted by odinloki1 View Post
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workfo...real_wages.jpg

Workers have continually been more productive. However the elites have manipulated the system for more of their own gains. (union weakening tactics, capital gains tax cuts etc.)

I have no problem with the hardest workers, the more innovative individuals making more money. I have a problem with people working hard and not being able to care for their families or have time for their families or personal health. A job should pay enough so a person can be accountable for their own, food shelter transportation and health as well as the well being of their offspring. The current system which is perpetuated by a majority of conservative controlled government is failing.
Oh for gods sake. Conservatism has absolutely nothing to do with it. You as an individual are responsible for providing the lifestyle that you desire. Lefties act as if income levels are a new phenomenon. "Hard work" is purely subjective...providing a service that few can provide will earn a higher wage than one in which many can do. Digging ditches is "hard work", but there are millions of people who can do it. Plumbing is also "hard work", but not so many are proficient.

Simply having a job does not offer you security.
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