Finland Plans to Give Every Citizen, Rich or Poor, $870 a Month (illegal, suspect)
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If the drug testing for public assistance programs have taught us anything it's that poor people use drugs at a lower rate than the general population.
I don't support drug testing.
Quote:
Your neighbor is more likely to be a heroin addict than some random guy in public housing.
My neighbors on both sides are retired but all the same, irrelevant. We still are going to have to deal with the addicts.
Seems like an interesting experiment to me. And it might be a practical solution to the declining number of GOOD jobs out there. If an increasing percentage of the population is destined to be unemployed or underemployed through no real fault of their own, this might be a sensible way to address the issue.
Every person is not going to get it. They are going to use a lottery system.
And this will only apply to adults, not children.
Welfare benefits will still be available to them while this pilot is being tested.
Yup! A very reasonable and sane method of doing this on a entry basis. But I suspect they will find that the lottery method is going to give rise to a massive demand for it to be made for all.
The conservatives are right to be concerned about people wanting free stuff. in a way. But this sort of thing makes sense. The critical thing is to keep the level low enough to foster desire for better, while high enough to cover the basics of living. And to not means test it in any way.
If the drug testing for public assistance programs have taught us anything it's that poor people use drugs at a lower rate than the general population. Your neighbor is more likely to be a heroin addict than some random guy in public housing.
What if.... my neighbor.... IS some guy in public housing???
My neighbors on both sides are retired but all the same, irrelevant. We still are going to have to deal with the addicts.
Again, why? We have ways of dealing with them now, none of that will change. We have no need to control what they do as long as they dont harm others. And if they do that we have a very robust set of laws to deal with them. If anything this might give more of them a chance.
They would actually have money for rehab, and once a month they could decide "rehab or slow death?" Kind of different from today. so I am not sure what your objection is really. What am I missing? Because to be honest generally you've been good about having a point I can understand even if I disagree. So maybe its me missing it.
$870 is enough for a healthy single person to survive, but if that $870 replaces ALL programs including medicaid, disability insurance, etc., it will place a lot of people into a big hole.
It would not cut it in US. In Finland they will still get health care on top of the $870. It might barely cut it in Finland, but it is so little, that it would drive most people back to work. Even a low paying job PLUS the $870 should be enough to survive.
Yup! A very reasonable and sane method of doing this on a entry basis. But I suspect they will find that the lottery method is going to give rise to a massive demand for it to be made for all.
The conservatives are right to be concerned about people wanting free stuff. in a way. But this sort of thing makes sense. The critical thing is to keep the level low enough to foster desire for better, while high enough to cover the basics of living. And to not means test it in any way.
Finland is an EU country. There are still lots of unanswered questions.
Do all Finish citizens get it whether or not they live in Finland ?
Do immigrants get it or just citizens ?
Do members of the EU living and working in Finland get it ?
So you can't just look at Finland and say "It will work here".
The US is not Finland, not even close.
Critics also say that it could suppress wages since they are already getting money from the government.
A very valid concern.
Finland is an EU country. There are still lots of unanswered questions.
Do all Finish citizens get it whether or not they live in Finland ?
Do immigrants get it or just citizens ?
Do members of the EU living and working in Finland get it ?
So you can't just look at Finland and say "It will work here".
The US is not Finland, not even close.
Critics also say that it could suppress wages since they are already getting money from the government.
A very valid concern.
Citizens that live in Finland I believe.
If the immigrants are citizens and have been for at least 5 years I believe
no members of the EU living there do not
*this is from memory mind you, so I may be confusing it with the program suggested in other countries, but I think I have the right one.
Critics can be concerned, its why they are doing it the way that they are, IE not everyone not all at once. I would be the first to suggest that it be done in a similar way here, with the exact same careful exploration in order to get good data.
There is past data from other experiments that indicate that the critics are wrong BTW.
Will it work here? Dunno, just as we do not know if it will work there. But there is a way to find out, and I think thats a GREAT idea.
Citizens that live in Finland I believe.
If the immigrants are citizens and have been for at least 5 years I believe
no members of the EU living there do not
*this is from memory mind you, so I may be confusing it with the program suggested in other countries, but I think I have the right one.
Critics can be concerned, its why they are doing it the way that they are, IE not everyone not all at once. I would be the first to suggest that it be done in a similar way here, with the exact same careful exploration in order to get good data.
There is past data from other experiments that indicate that the critics are wrong BTW.
Will it work here? Dunno, just as we do not know if it will work there. But there is a way to find out, and I think thats a GREAT idea.
This is not the first country that has experimented with this.
Other countries have but stopped it after their experiments were over.
This is not the first country that has experimented with this.
Other countries have but stopped it after their experiments were over.
And? Most of the experiments showed great success. This is the next step up in experimentation. The one metric people get most concerned about is a small % drop in employment. Which tends to be from people going to school, or raising children. Both activities that I think we should encourage.
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