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I heard of a scheme where a congress critter holds a poker game in his house most weeks. A few lobbyists are invited to attend. The congress critter rarely looses. Neat off the record way of buying influence wouldn’t you say.
History is filled with countless grass roots organizations and popular movements that have affected policy.
Politicians like Howard Dean and Ron Paul received more money than their rivals and both did it with almost entirely small donations. Neither got in, but that is more due to the way they ran their campaigns rather than the money they got.
Yea, big government as it currently exist today, has made it almost impossible for movements like Women's sufferage, which was grassroots, and brought to the door of the people, not to the ever expanding judicial branch for passage. This is the problem with big government, people see their problems as government issues, government is overly relied upon to fix issues, citizens should be rallying other citizens for support, via a grassroots movement. It is just so much easier to run to the federal government with your compliants then it is to take the hardwork neccessary to champion your cause and gain support amongst the people.
Are you suggesting that the media DONATE space and time for campaign advertisements? That will NEVER happen in a trillion years. Media makes a ton of money on political advertising. It's the most expensive type of advertising there is -- and for good reason (because there are a lot of special laws that govern it).
Taxpayers would have to provide the money for campaign advertising. That's the only way to make it fair to the candidates and the media corporations and their shareholders. A tax write-off isn't going to cut it.
AGain.. politics polluted by the corporate money machines.. laws put in place to " govern" politics and running campaigns that seems to benefit who? The corporations that stand to make a lot of money off of it!
AS far as I'm concerned, we're not as "free" as we used to be.. because we are governed by politicians that have been purchased by big corporations who's only agenda it is is to put more money in their pockets.
I'm not against making money or anything like that of course not.. but when it corrupts what's supposed to be a democracy and the ONLY voices that seem to truly get heard are the ones with the deep pockets..
Also, what would you do about campaign advertising placed by outside groups, like those Swift Boat people? You can't regulate that. It falls under the First Amendment (Freedom of Speech).
They can spend their own money to do what they want with.. I'm talking specifically about the candidates
I think your basic premise might be great, but it is truly impossible and sadly to say would not be good for America. Part of the problem is not necessarily corporations, but bigger government. More government leads to less freedoms enjoyed by individuals and states. There is also a huge component of government spending that is caused by successul citizens groups that utilize political Actions Committees and lobbisyt to influence legislative and governing decisions. (NRA, PETA, UAW, and the AARP to name a few.)
As government, grows and gets bigger, it tends to stick its nose into place it does not belong. The bigger government gets the less accountabile it becomes and the more prone to corruption it becomes.
Once government, increases in size, it impedes on the freedoms and powers of the states and the individual freedoms of citizens. It becomes more centralized and Authoritarian and power becomes more concentrated in the hands of a few, while the rest of us are left outside of that power.
However, some of the biggest contributors increasing government subsidies and expenditures, are not only large corporations, but citizens groups, who have an individual vested interest in serving their own needs above the greater good to society. Besides corporatations, Elderly citizens, are some of the biggest drains on the economy, as well as unionized workers in the 60's,70's, and 80's. Each of these groups gained significant political clout and power (in the Unions case it rivalied that of big corporations) and in some cases the ederly still do. These groups lobby very hard for laws that do not better the majority of people, but place a huge burden on the rest of society to support their cause.
While getting rid of corporations and their lobbyist my seem like a noble and just idea, it will not eliminate all the other groups that lobby and also have their hands in political pockets. The easiest way, to eliminate extreme amounts of preferntial treatment, is to reduce the size and scope of government. Place the power with the people where it belongs, to make these decision on a more localized and state level. When this is done, there is less room for corruptions and more accountability. Only attacking large corporations, will do you no good in the end, it is an effort in futility.
I hear what you are saying.. but then answer me this..
Taking the elderly for example. They have banded together, so to speak, to get laws to help them survive? Don't you think, in our society, that if left up to the people the elderly would be discarded and thrown aside?
Your words alone a "drain" is precisely the attitude toward the elderly that make them fearful enough to WANT to ban together to have laws to protect them. After all, the elderly were once young working and contributing to making America what it is today..onlyto be later discarded because they are of no more "financially gainful use".
Someday I'm going to get old, not be able to work etc. I dont' want to end up on the street a pan handler or left to die because i don't have money to pay for my medications.
PETA is for protection of an otherwise vulnerable group.
Only thing coroporations and big business protect is their bottom line.. it's all about MONEY to them and be damend with the rest.
I think THIS is why our government is percieved the way you percieve it.. because it is really run by greedy corporations looking to continually line their pockets and NOT a government that governs based on what the people want or need.
I think it's just sad..
AGain.. politics polluted by the corporate money machines.. laws put in place to " govern" politics and running campaigns that seems to benefit who? The corporations that stand to make a lot of money off of it!
AS far as I'm concerned, we're not as "free" as we used to be.. because we are governed by politicians that have been purchased by big corporations who's only agenda it is is to put more money in their pockets.
I'm not against making money or anything like that of course not.. but when it corrupts what's supposed to be a democracy and the ONLY voices that seem to truly get heard are the ones with the deep pockets..
TM, we are all clearly in argeement, but I think leving such a high tax, so to speak on the corruption associated with corporate america gives all of these other lobbying groups a free pass. My argument is the other groups do equally as much if not more damage than the corporations, because they do not provide us with jobs or any financial security. All they do is take and take and take.
The largest lobbying group in the country is the AARP and they lobbied so hard for so many different programs, that only benefit a small group of individuals at the greater expense of most tax payers. They helped raise medical prices, which again is a burden many of their members will never pay. Why should they be subsidized at the expense of the rest of us?
I mean sure corruporations (just made the word up) lol are also a problem, but i think it goes back the the core issue of government getting bigger and reducing our "freedoms." Who's to say a senator that's 60 years old is not pushing and getting paid off by the AARP to push legislation, that is not in the best interest of the bulk of younger workers?
A lot of times these lobbying groups force the hand of government and government forces the price upon corporations, which eventually trickles down to higher prices for consumers. All of these groups are equally at fault, but that does not mean we should eliminate lobbying. It serves a vital purpose in our society and sometimes under the right legislation it can be beneficial. Certainly not all members in the AARP are rich, but they have a well organized mobile unit, that happens to go out and vote more often then other citizen run lobbying groups. Thus it makes them more valuable to politicans running for office.
Last edited by truthhurts; 02-04-2008 at 09:29 AM..
This post was not meant as a "serious" solution to a problem. it was more like an idealistic idea of a corrupt free political system that accounts for people..not bottom lines and profit.. that's all...
Kind of like the John Lennon song imagine!! We have yet to see that song come true..
I hear what you are saying.. but then answer me this..
Taking the elderly for example. They have banded together, so to speak, to get laws to help them survive? Don't you think, in our society, that if left up to the people the elderly would be discarded and thrown aside?
Your words alone a "drain" is precisely the attitude toward the elderly that make them fearful enough to WANT to ban together to have laws to protect them. After all, the elderly were once young working and contributing to making America what it is today..onlyto be later discarded because they are of no more "financially gainful use".
Someday I'm going to get old, not be able to work etc. I dont' want to end up on the street a pan handler or left to die because i don't have money to pay for my medications.
PETA is for protection of an otherwise vulnerable group.
Only thing coroporations and big business protect is their bottom line.. it's all about MONEY to them and be damend with the rest.
I think THIS is why our government is percieved the way you percieve it.. because it is really run by greedy corporations looking to continually line their pockets and NOT a government that governs based on what the people want or need.
I think it's just sad..
Three quick points i'll keep it short.
Yes, we are all going to get older, but that gives us no right to be a drain on society.
Less government involvement and more individuality would force people to focus at a very young age on
1. Saving for retirement
2. Fewer frivolus investments that drain capital (at a younger age)
3. People that did not take responsibility for themselves would be the small group that ends up on the street ( I see nothing wrong with reducing government and leaving responsibility within the individuals hands, because i think most individuals in society are capable of this responsibility)
I agree nothing is wrong with Lobbying, but do not band together, because you did not do the right things when you were a younger worker to create a sustainable life style for yourself in your older age. Or do not band together in the interest of saving only yourselves a few bucks at the expense of the greater society. (both coprs and other special interest groups do this) Influencing legislative decisions to get freebies for bad-decisions in life should or just wanting to be subsidized, because you're part of a special group should not be tolerated. Currently, that is the problem i have with lobbying groups for the ederly. There is no accountability! This sort of system cannot continue. Let me screw up and band with other screw ups who vote and have our way on the masses of people and make them pay for our bad decisions, or let me band together with a group in a special circumstance like me and see if we can get a few dollars off a prescription at the expense of others.~! I find that sad.
Last point a corporation does not have a responsibility to society. It only responsibility is to current shareholders, that is it! Corporations are for profit, thus they are in the business to make as much profit as possible. I do not see the argument in corporations making money.
Last edited by truthhurts; 02-04-2008 at 09:57 AM..
Just some thoughts about politics and elections. We all know about lobbyist, campaign reform etc. (although i must admit I do not know enough about it). But what I do know is that big corporate America has a strangle on our government and a lot of politicians in their pockets. Most, if not all, of our politicians are wealthy individuals with investment portfolios etc... so I was just thinking a few things.
Imagine a campaign where NO contributions could be made by BIG Corporations with special interest
Yes.. costs to run campaigns are high.. but imagine..
TV spots and Newspaper spots DONATED to EACH of the candidates (no favoritism.. each gets equal donated airtime) to reach the American Public.. (and.. for their donation they can get a tax write off!)
All Candidates , once elected, must pull out of their investments and they can put their money in an interest account that hey can access etc. This is so that none of those supposedly working in the citizens best interest have a vested interest in any particular company (like oil, insurance etc.) What a NOVEL idea.. their choices would be dictated by what the people in unison want.. not what benefits their own pocket.
Politicians need to listento both sides and not be swayed by money or greed!
We need to get Corporate America OUT of politics... or atleast remove their control over so many decisions that seem to benefit only their bottom lines and NOT the country as a whole and not regular average American Citizens.
Yeah.. I know.. you all are going to beat me up now.. it's okay!! I knowi it's a fantasy.. but maybe someday..
How is this any different from the Sierra Club or AARP or teachers or the NRA? Yet, everyone of those organizations pursue their own agenda. Sometimes it coincides with the greater good, but sometimes it's really ad odds with the overall health of the country.
Corporations have a right to do business, and are responsible for the economic growth of the country. They have as much right to offer their opinion as anyone else.
In fact, I might offer that what you're really wanting is not to keep Corporations from having influence in politics, but just silencing those voices you find inconvenient or dislike.
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