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Old 12-14-2015, 01:34 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,018 posts, read 44,824,472 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge View Post
I was pointing out that musical achievement is reflective of actual aptitude--
Yes, musical aptitude. Not necessarily academic aptitude.
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Old 12-14-2015, 01:42 PM
 
Location: CA
1,716 posts, read 2,501,354 times
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IMO - If 'real' affirmative action began in about kindergarten, it wouldn't be necessary later.
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Old 12-14-2015, 01:48 PM
 
Location: CA
1,716 posts, read 2,501,354 times
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K-12 vouchers would be a big step in a positive direction- except for teachers' union revenue loss - so that's out.
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Old 12-14-2015, 02:22 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Yes, musical aptitude. Not necessarily academic aptitude.
Disagreed. The positive effects on cognition (obviously?) reflect academic aptitude.
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Old 12-14-2015, 02:28 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
No. It also depends on the subjectivity of the admissions officer who's reading the personal statement and essays. They're not a reliably objective way in which to compare applicants.

I agree with the bolded statement, which is why I've been a proponent of school vouchers for years. It's a matter of fact that some minority groups are disproportionately forced to attend inferior quality public K-12 schools.

http://www.dfer.org/2008/10/obama_questione.php

No "AA," though. That just oppresses members of some groups.
To clarify, AA based not on race, but SES.
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Old 12-14-2015, 03:13 PM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
38,936 posts, read 23,897,671 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
No. It also depends on the subjectivity of the admissions officer who's reading the personal statement and essays. They're not a reliably objective way in which to compare applicants.

I agree with the bolded statement, which is why I've been a proponent of school vouchers for years. It's a matter of fact that some minority groups are disproportionately forced to attend inferior quality public K-12 schools.

http://www.dfer.org/2008/10/obama_questione.php

No "AA," though. That just oppresses members of some groups.
You do understand that there are lotteries for charter and private schools that allow the minorities "forced to attend inferior quality public K-12 school"? Now yes, only a few can but we would see The same with vouchers. There's just only so many seats to fit too many butts and too many think charter schools are the answer so they forget to find the public schools on a state level...
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Old 12-14-2015, 03:20 PM
 
371 posts, read 426,072 times
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Default How do you not support Affirmative Action with statistics like these?

I chose to post this in the Calif. forum because the state got rid of Affirm Action in graduate school admissions within the century, I believe it was proposition 29 or something similar. With statistics like these, why is their an uproar about Affirmative Action's existence?

To put things into perspective, there are roughly 220 million whites, 44 million blacks, and 56 million hispanics living in the United States. That means for every qualified black or hispanic candidate there *will* be a white candidate with the exact same qualifications, just due to population and probability. That being said, with America's history, it's easy to think that if we got rid of Affirm Action then the vast majority of opportunities would *only* go to white people. It'd recreate, or solidify, America's caste system based upon melanin tint (or in all actuality, how recently we migrated out of Africa).

In short, isn't it true that Affirm Action is an anti-discriminatory mandate, instead of a prejudicial policy that the right-wing make it seem?

http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/files...6-11_FINAL.pdf

Last edited by Ibginnie; 12-15-2015 at 05:05 AM.. Reason: copyright violation
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Old 12-14-2015, 03:31 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,018 posts, read 44,824,472 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge View Post
Disagreed. The positive effects on cognition (obviously?) reflect academic aptitude.
If they did, the test scores would match and the student could be evaluated on academic credentials. It's a mistake to accept a student with lower scores than their admission cohorts just because they have a non-academic talent or skill. This study is about the mismatch that results from Affirmative Action, but the same concept applies to students with lower test scores than their cohorts who were admitted on the basis of a nonacademic talent or skill. Prime example: recruited college athletes.

http://public.econ.duke.edu/~psarcidi/mismatch.pdf
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Old 12-14-2015, 03:32 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,018 posts, read 44,824,472 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mingna View Post
To clarify, AA based not on race, but SES.
There's still the problem of mismatch, which ends up doing more harm than good.

http://public.econ.duke.edu/~psarcidi/mismatch.pdf
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Old 12-14-2015, 03:34 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,018 posts, read 44,824,472 times
Reputation: 13711
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
You do understand that there are lotteries for charter and private schools that allow the minorities "forced to attend inferior quality public K-12 school"? Now yes, only a few can but we would see The same with vouchers. There's just only so many seats to fit too many butts and too many think charter schools are the answer so they forget to find the public schools on a state level...
I didn't say anything about limiting voucher use to charter schools. Vouchers can be used at private schools, as well.
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