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Old 02-04-2008, 07:23 PM
 
708 posts, read 928,562 times
Reputation: 364

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeledaf View Post
Idiotic drivel -- and insulting to any enlightened person.
I second that!
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Old 02-04-2008, 07:50 PM
 
Location: wrong planet
5,161 posts, read 11,398,703 times
Reputation: 4336
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shizzles View Post
And Soviet Gulags were not "slavery"?
There are all different types of "Slavery", some more obvious - some less.
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Old 02-04-2008, 08:00 PM
 
746 posts, read 838,739 times
Reputation: 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluskyz View Post
I second that!

ROFLMAO, seriously dude, if you did not like the thread exrercise your right to free-choice and do not read it. Well now that you're here how about this answering a few questions.

Who am I insulting and how?

What the heck do black americans opinions on race have to do with this debate? (btw I'm black)

Last question

If you cannot understand or comprehend an argument why show your intellectual insecurity by insulting the poster?

MOD CUT

Last edited by NewToCA; 02-04-2008 at 10:01 PM.. Reason: comment on the topic you've initiated, not the poster
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Old 02-04-2008, 09:04 PM
 
Location: Near Manito
20,170 posts, read 24,229,874 times
Reputation: 15284
Quote:
Originally Posted by truthhurts View Post
ROFLMAO, seriously dude, if you did not like the thread exrercise your right to free-choice and do not read it. Well now that you're here how about this answering a few questions.

Who am I insulting and how?

What the heck do black americans opinions on race have to do with this debate? (btw I'm black)

Last question

If you cannot understand or comprehend an argument why show your intellectual insecurity by insulting the poster?

Grow up dude!
No one is insulting the poster. By starting this thread, the poster is insulting us.
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Old 02-04-2008, 09:57 PM
 
4,183 posts, read 6,499,783 times
Reputation: 1734
Slaves getting competitive wages is an oxymoron. For a slave to get a competitive wage, there has to be a competing plantation offering higher wages, and the slave has to be free to choose to work in that plantation - in which case the slave isn't really a slave. That alone exposes the intellectual bankruptcy of your post.

But to play along MOD CUT, I'd say I would not invest in this kind of corporation. The advent of mechanization will put those plantations which continue to use slaves at a disadvantage.

Last edited by NewToCA; 02-04-2008 at 10:00 PM.. Reason: uncalled for comment
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Old 02-04-2008, 09:59 PM
 
Location: Sacramento
14,044 posts, read 27,106,052 times
Reputation: 7373
This thread has had at least as much discussion about each other as it has had about the topic.

No more personal comments. Discuss the subject or just leave it be.
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Old 02-05-2008, 06:55 AM
 
746 posts, read 838,739 times
Reputation: 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by ndfmnlf View Post
Slaves getting competitive wages is an oxymoron. For a slave to get a competitive wage, there has to be a competing plantation offering higher wages, and the slave has to be free to choose to work in that plantation - in which case the slave isn't really a slave. That alone exposes the intellectual bankruptcy of your post.

But to play along MOD CUT, I'd say I would not invest in this kind of corporation. The advent of mechanization will put those plantations which continue to use slaves at a disadvantage.

Brillant, I see nothing gets passed you. Correctly and rightfully said, paying someone a wage eliminates slavery (in the proper sense) which is unpaid labor. However, that was not the gist of the argument. The point, was to say even under a process that refused to reward slaves with competitive wages, lets assume they kept the same system of enslavement, but paid a competitive wage. This is definitely something that could have happend. In my opinion what would happen would be the advent of competition between The Plantations and not the slaves. The goal of each plantation would be to pay competitive earnings only amongst their slaves not base their pay on the pay scale of other Plantations. In other words to expand labor each plantations goal, which the slave has no say in is to expand operation at the cheapest cost. There would be no Slave Unions to demand higher wages. The slave would be at the mercy of whatever a Plantation owner deemed a competitive wage.

Here's were your argument looses merit. A slave does not have to have free-choice to work anywhere, thus, through the limiting of choose he is a "slave." However, paying a competitive wage from an Owner is not reflected in how much another Owner decides to pay his slaves, because the slaves are limited in choices regardless. As a stated previously the only movement for a slave would happen when they are either bought or sold to another plantation. Or when they are outsourced for free-lance work on smaller farms.

As pervious noted, they would not be able to move freely between plantation, so their knoweldge of what another Plantation in another state is paying their slaves is of little concern. Remember there is no proliferation of mass media to document Plantation A's wages versus Plantation C's wages. Nor would slaves be able to forum Unions.
Nor is there any Company mobility for Slaves, thus they are still slaves whether they are competitively paid or not.

You can restrict and limit movement and still pay a competitive wage.

1. Your training is company specific and not easily transferrable to another Plantation
2. Education is taught in the best interest of the current plantation where the slaves skills are being used
3. Why would a slave assume anywhere else is different if he has a comfortable living on his current plantation?
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Old 02-05-2008, 07:36 AM
 
2,356 posts, read 3,446,522 times
Reputation: 864
Quote:
Originally Posted by truthhurts View Post
Correctly and rightfully said, paying someone a wage eliminates slavery (in the proper sense) which is unpaid labor. However, that was not the gist of the argument.
Which is why none of this makes any sense.

If you pay slaves, they aren't slaves. End of story.
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Old 02-05-2008, 07:42 AM
 
3,210 posts, read 4,592,414 times
Reputation: 4312
This thread is a subtle jab at Capitalism by saying it's tied to slavery. Go say "No" to your friendly neighborhood block capitan in China, see what happens.
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Old 02-05-2008, 08:04 AM
 
2,356 posts, read 3,446,522 times
Reputation: 864
Quote:
Originally Posted by truthhurts View Post
[font=Verdana]I didn’t make the term up, I simply coined to two different terms and combined them.
AKA, you made them up. You can't expect anyone to understand your idea when you make up your own phrases and words.

You referred to a "current servitude structure." It is 2007, we have no current servitude structure. We make our own decisions.


Quote:
Well, clearly, the state government would have wanted to help facilitate early growth, within its own state; I assumed most states would have been staunchly against interstate commerce, in the beginning this would have helped to protect and subsidize their own large Plantations. Under such subsidies, Plantations would not be open to any other competition outside of the state.

Those are not called subsidies - those are called tariffs. Tariffs existed between the states before the U.S. was formed, I believe, but I'm not sure.

Quote:
Eventually, that would prove too inefficient for Plantations, and states would have made the decision to open interstate commerce as well as compete in global trade (which all took place in the south).
Cotton, tobacco, indigo, and rice were all traded globally since the settlement of the new world, tariffs or not.

Quote:
The South was the number one producer of tobacco and cotton in the world. All of this production helped to expand and increase the United States gross domestic product (GDP), as well as its gross national product (GNP), I’m not going to explain how all of this affected the country you should consider reviewing civics material on the subject.
I'm aware of what GNP and GDP are. You don't need to be so condescending, suggesting that I review civics material.

You totally failed to address the issue I brought up. Why would a plantation voluntarily sacrifice its profit for the welfare of the state? Why would a colonial plantation care about its states' GNP/GDP?


Quote:
In your third paragraph you’re obviously unknowingly falling into my argument, what if this was handled more efficiently through competitive wages? 1. Slaves would obviously be less likely to revolt, because they are being paid for their services 2. Why would a slave want to leave a plantation when the job opportunities offered to him outside of the Plantation are not nearly as certain and lucrative?
1. Slaves would've be far more capable of revolting with wages. They could buy swords, knives, guns, and bullets.

2. You make the assumption that the plantation would be more lucrative. I don't know this to be true. You also fail to acknowledge that slaves wanted to be free, wages or not.

Quote:
[font=Verdana]My theory helps to solidify why slaves would have been less likely to revolt if Southern plantations provided competitive wages.
Your theory rests on dozens of assumptions.

Quote:
Who would revolt if you’re being paid a wage for work and you’re given benefits, in the form of housing, food, and education?
Someone without freedom. Someone who is a slave. Wages don't mean anything if you can't use them. You might as well pay them in leaves.

Quote:
Your white fear logic of a slave revolt under competitive wages would be extremely less likely to take place.
No. False.

Quote:
[font=Verdana]In terms of education, that is the single best way to control the masses. You teach them what you want them to know not what they need to know.

In a Slave Industry who would be controlling this education? The Slave Master (CEO) what kind of education do you think he would teach? Obviously, an education that is beneficial to the efficiency of The Plantation (aka company). This would help pacify the slave into believing this life style is his best place for success. Most of the education would center on training how to effectively till a field and work within the confines of The Plantation.

Like I said, slaves WERE educated to a limited extent. I don't see how your example differs from what actually happened.

Quote:
This would be no different than today’s companies, which tend to only train employees on company specific skills, which are usually not easily transferable over to other companies and new lines of work (ie. Ford doesn’t teach skills that are easily transferable to Microsoft)
Ford doesn't keep you locked up in a shed behind the factory. Your scenario is wildly different from today's capitalism, and it is shocking to me that you can't see this.
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