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Old 12-27-2015, 01:43 PM
 
6,009 posts, read 2,775,498 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
Let's face it, without slavery there's no Civil War, that's a sine qua non.
Do you believe that Lincoln and the Northern states went to war in order to end slavery?

Quote:
It's strangely ironic how those most likely to deride political correctness in the present day seem to be the least likely to notice the close connection between the Confederacy & slavery? Let's face it, the cornerstone of the Confederacy rested on the belief of racial inequality. It's almost as if the neo-Confederates of the present day would like to absolve the Confederacy of any charges of racism at all?
Leveling continued charges of racism against the Southern states, while holding Northern states blameless is unfair in the extreme. That the Northern states generally (but not completely) ended slavery sooner than the Southern states in no way puts them on the moral high ground.

If ending slavery was THE goal, Northern states could have bought the freedom of every Southern slave, at a price much less than what the war cost in terms of treasure and lives.

Going to war to "preserve the union" makes as much sense as murdering your spouse because they want to leave you.

Last edited by TaxPhd; 12-27-2015 at 01:46 PM.. Reason: Changed spelling of "Northers" to Northern."

 
Old 12-27-2015, 01:45 PM
 
Location: *
8,028 posts, read 2,365,300 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415 View Post
Oh I totally agree. I said this earlier, with an emphasis on the SOME, and got yelled at for it by some Southerners.
I'll probably get yelled at too for noticing the Lost Cause mythology was created to relieve the cognitive dissonance involved in seeking to remain proud of an illogical, unreasonable, ... cause.

Personally, I think it makes more sense to debunk the fairy tales.
 
Old 12-27-2015, 01:55 PM
 
Location: *
8,028 posts, read 2,365,300 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd View Post
Do you believe that Lincoln and the Northern states went to war in order to end slavery?
If the Slave Rebellions or Insurrections had been successful, there would be no American Civil War.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd View Post
Leveling continued charges of racism against the Southern states, while holding Northern states blameless is unfair in the extreme. That the Northern states generally (but not completely) ended slavery sooner than the Southern states in no way puts them on the moral high ground.

If ending slavery was THE goal, Northern states could have bought the freedom of every Southern slave, at a price much less than what the war cost in terms of treasure and lives.

Going to war to "preserve the union" makes as much sense as murdering your spouse because they want to leave you.
North, South, East & West were systemically racist, not interested in your fairy tales.

A much much better mythology would be a successful nonviolent Slave rebellion, insurrection, or revolution & resulting in the end of slavery.
 
Old 12-27-2015, 02:41 PM
 
2,057 posts, read 1,113,201 times
Reputation: 2101
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
Insult me all you want.
Okay. Thank you for giving me permission. Although I must admit it wasn't intended as an insult, it was intended as a statement of fact. However, since you feel insulted, I am happy for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
My position still stands.
As does mine ... Me.Me.Me.Me.Me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
I bet if there was an issue that would affect you, you would think of what is in your best interests.
And that I do ... I just don't babble self-serving nonsense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
Why complain about me looking out for myself?
And for your information, there is only one person complaining here. Let's see if we can figure out just who that might be.

El Nox
 
Old 12-27-2015, 03:01 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
21,912 posts, read 10,211,395 times
Reputation: 20044
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
Life in Chicago was no picnic for Blacks, or anywhere. However, Chicago did not have the laws that the South had during Jim Crow. Segregation of schools was not the law of the land in Chicago. It was so in the South.
Listener2307 doesn't listen, he denies history.
 
Old 12-27-2015, 03:06 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
21,912 posts, read 10,211,395 times
Reputation: 20044
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
Let's face it, without slavery there's no Civil War, that's a sine qua non.
The deniers of history will, of course, disagree with you.
 
Old 12-27-2015, 03:07 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
21,912 posts, read 10,211,395 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
If you have no problem with removing the Confederate hero statues, how about replacing them with Slave Rebellion Memorials or Slave Insurrection Monuments & commemorating those heroes? After all, if the Slave Rebellions had been successful, there would be no American Civil War.
Sounds like a great idea to me.
 
Old 12-27-2015, 03:09 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
21,912 posts, read 10,211,395 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
The Confederacy was a traitor to Science, Logic, Reason, Common Sense ... . Keep in mind the Confederacy was the side that believed human beings were property.
It was a cancer on freedom and democracy.
 
Old 12-27-2015, 03:25 PM
 
2,057 posts, read 1,113,201 times
Reputation: 2101
History lesson


'Four score and seven years ago" ... we've all heard it and know the what and why for. There are persons on this thread that demean General Robert E Lee, calling him among other things a traitor. Robert is the son of Revolutionary War hero Light-horse Harry Lee who also served as the 9th Governor of Virginia. Harry (and Robert) believed that they were Virginians first and Americans second. That attitude is why Robert accepted the command of the Army of Northern Virginia. That army was the most formidable force the Union faced and the one that took the most Union soldiers lives and gave it the most defeats. It is the date of the surrender of the Army of Northern Virginia by General Lee at Appomattox Court House which the North uses as the date the War of Northern Aggression ended. Posters claiming to be the descendants of slaves still carry the 'slave' mentality, ignoring the fact that Gettysburg happened seven score and ten years after the Constitution. They belittle the fact that General Lee considered himself a Virginian 87 years after nationhood yet pride themselves in the slave mentality 150 years later. And remember it was General Lee's father who fought and their ancestors are generations ago.


Second point ... There are posters who harp about the Articles of Secession. Let's see if we can figure this out. The founding fathers wrote the Constitution. There was a little thing called the 3/5 compromise. I need to remind the harpers that it was the NORTHERN states that wanted the blacks relegated to 3/5 status, not the south. The south wanted each body counted as a whole body. But back to the Articles ... these Articles were not written by the poor or the farmers. They were written by the wealthy just like the Constitution was. These same wealthy folks excluded themselves from military service and any person who owned greater than seven slaves. Which means that the fighting was done by the poor folks. These folks were fighting for states rights (a la the 10th Amendment) not so the rich landowners could keep their slaves. By the way, virtually all of these poor folks were white. Kinda like the union troops (although there were a limited number of blacks). You need to go back to a very important date in the War of Northern Aggression ... 1 January 1863 ... and see what happened in BOTH armies. Let's see if the word desertion appears. Now I will end this portion of the history lesson and say "Okay folks, homework time ... look up what happened 1 January 1863". There are certain posters who have already made their minds up so facts will do nothing, and they won't even bother. What a pity.


End of today's lesson.


El Nox
 
Old 12-27-2015, 04:55 PM
 
6,009 posts, read 2,775,498 times
Reputation: 5849
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
If the Slave Rebellions or Insurrections had been successful, there would be no American Civil War.
Yeah, because there were no other issues between north and south, other than slavery.

Quote:
North, South, East & West were systemically racist, not interested in your fairy tales.
What fairy tale are you talking about?

Quote:
A much much better mythology would be a successful nonviolent Slave rebellion, insurrection, or revolution & resulting in the end of slavery.
Slavery was on its way out, as it wasn't viable in the age of industrial revolution. However, even if slavery had died out on its own, the North's treatment of the South would likely have still resulted in secession. And Lincoln would have still have created the loss of life and treasure that was the Civil War.
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