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Old 01-03-2016, 05:42 PM
 
Location: P.C.F
1,973 posts, read 1,629,025 times
Reputation: 1607

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Should we erect monuments for the people who flew into the WTC on Sept 11th? They killed people they didn't like too..
The Civil War was about states rights.. Yes it was states rights , that allowed for a very few Wealthy White Men to own other men women and children in the same way and with the same rules laws and conditions as they owned cattle.. That Was The Only Real Argument at the time. There was a sub argument supported by those same few slave owners that , by losing slavery they would reduce their Profit Margins.. The Driving Force behind States Rights is... TADA! Those same few men can control legislature at a state level easily and cheaply and without much delay or argument ( in The South) .. You take a large group of ignorant uneducated people and convince them to die for what's good for your pocket.. Or you convince that same demographics' that lower wages is not only good for business but its even better for the workers.. hahahaahaha..


Quote:
Originally Posted by dpm1 View Post
Interesting. IMO it is a shame to take down these monuments, they are ultimately monuments to American dead.

(northerner yankee here)

 
Old 01-03-2016, 05:52 PM
 
47,557 posts, read 45,256,057 times
Reputation: 15193
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Nox View Post
Here's a thought ... stop obfuscating. Both of us know the answer, you refuse to admit it. BTW can you refute my points other than the biased tripe you've posted?

El Nox
The "biased tripe" you mention is based on original documents from back in those days. I notice that you cannot refute that. You have not shown me that you can refute anything that I have posted. Calling it biased does not make it any less true. You have not proven me wrong. All you have proven is that you disagree but cannot refute.
 
Old 01-03-2016, 06:29 PM
 
Location: Vermont
10,281 posts, read 11,168,402 times
Reputation: 14111
Funny that these pro-Confederate apologists don't want to believe the words of their very own heroes, isn't it?
 
Old 01-03-2016, 07:15 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
22,060 posts, read 10,271,083 times
Reputation: 20103
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackmccullough View Post
Funny that these pro-Confederate apologists don't want to believe the words of their very own heroes, isn't it?
They stumble all over proclaiming states' rights, but forget about human rights.
 
Old 01-03-2016, 08:25 PM
 
2,057 posts, read 1,116,191 times
Reputation: 2101
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
They stumble all over proclaiming states' rights, but forget about human rights.

As usual you obfuscate. No one has forgotten about human rights. The issue was why folks fought for the Confederacy which initially was states rights. Since you and the rest of your ilk fail to understand the importance of 1 January 1863 (hint ... Fredrick Douglas) you harp (or should I say stumble) on your other tripe. Your pseudo-historians have never mentioned Fred or his involvement with Lincoln. All of you will not do this because the History Revisionists must cater to the slave ancestor whiners who believe they are due reparations. Pity.

Mr. school administrator/principal/vice principal go take a look for yourself. But alas, you've had multiple reminders and FAILED to do so.


El Nox
 
Old 01-03-2016, 08:28 PM
 
2,057 posts, read 1,116,191 times
Reputation: 2101
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
All you have proven is that you disagree but cannot refute.
And all you have done is failed to educate yourself. BTW, I have refuted your claim but you refuse to even research for yourself.

El Nox
 
Old 01-03-2016, 08:29 PM
 
1,069 posts, read 552,921 times
Reputation: 1456
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
They stumble all over proclaiming states' rights, but forget about human rights.
Slaves didn't have rights, they were property
 
Old 01-03-2016, 09:17 PM
 
8,882 posts, read 5,038,893 times
Reputation: 9237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keep It Simple View Post
Slaves didn't have rights, they were property
slaves were no different than cattle at that time, they were considered property. The object about state right is, the northern system wanted a strong federal government while the southern states wanted a weak central government as the constitution were written. The south was producing 75% of the exports of united states with cotton because of Eli Whitney gin. yes it was being produce on the back of the slave labor, which nobody alive agrees is good.

because the north wasn't producing as much exports on machinery. they started taxing and tariff on the southern cotton.

This is where state rights come in. the federal government started imposing program to benefit the north tax base without the consent or approval of the southern congress men
 
Old 01-03-2016, 11:05 PM
 
10,829 posts, read 4,139,619 times
Reputation: 4699
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
Do you honestly believe all of this is rational? You have gathered evidence & are making a valid and logical argument? & the premise of the argument is ... It is a war on white people.
Of course it is.

It's all about tearing down monuments to white people because they had the nerve to do what other races did throughout history -- have slaves.

Yes, it's a double-standard, and definitely selective outrage directed solely at white people.

It couldn't be more obvious.

It's all part of the on-going war on white people.

Quote:
Honestly? I wonder if this is how the American Civil War started. Delusions of Slaver States believing the Non Slaver States were waging War on them.
They weren't delusions.

The North invaded the South, not the other way around.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415 View Post
Useless drivel since you still can't comprehend that the fact that the Confederates OWNED slaves is not why people have an issue with honoring them, but that THEY LEFT THE COUNTRY TO FORM THEIR OWN IN ORDER TO MAINTAIN SLAVERY, which was the MAIN reason.
Who cares?

Washington and Jefferson owned slaves -- but nobody is proposing tearing down their monuments.

If slavery is the issue -- which your side insists is the case -- what is the moral difference between one slave owner and another slave owner?

There is no difference.

Quote:
If it was simply about owning slaves, we would have like no people to honor from our early history since owning slaves was common and normal.
That's right.

Quote:
However, seceding from the country to maintain slavery while everyone else is starting to move on and realize how wrong it was is not an action that deserves to be honored.
Neither do Washington and Jefferson deserve to be honored if slavery -- as one of my interlocutors has said -- was always immoral.

They owned slaves.

Quote:
Many of us consider Confederates, especially important ones like Lee and Davis, to be TRAITORS TO THE UNITED STATES.
You have no basis for considering them traitors, as I have shown over and over again.

Quote:
God, it is really not hard to understand yet you keep insisting it's JUST about owning slaves and making that useless comparison to George Washington. Washington didn't secede from the US then fire on it over slavery. He helped create this great country your confederates seceded from and fired upon first.
Why was it such a "great country" if it had slavery at its founding, and Washington and Jefferson owned slaves?

By your standard it wasn't a great country.

It was a rotten, evil country from the very beginning.

We should tear down the monuments to ALL of its founders and early leaders.

Quote:
yet any Confederate who is honored....seceded and fired on the US
Yes, they fired on a country -- the U.S. -- that was rotten and evil to the core at its very founding because it had slavery, its founders Washington and Jefferson owned slaves, and slavery continued to exist in the North -- in Missouri, Maryland, Deleware, etc.

I'm just taking your argument to its logical conclusion.

Quote:
it's really about seceding and being what many see as traitors to your country. Why honor a traitor?
Indeed.

Why honor Washington, who fought as a British soldier in the French and Indian wars, and then became a traitor to England?

Over and over again we see the double-standard at work here.

Last edited by dechatelet; 01-03-2016 at 11:17 PM..
 
Old 01-03-2016, 11:14 PM
 
12,545 posts, read 10,414,651 times
Reputation: 17296
^ Lots and lots of illogical nonsense. It's sad that this is what some Southerners learn about their history. I didn't know revisionist history was quite this bad... wow. No wonder the Northern states (mainly Northeastern) have the top education systems in the country. Makes perfect sense considering the nonsense the South apparently learns.

Why honor Washington, a traitor to England? Because this isn't England. You can't even be serious with your arguments. You make no sense. Do you actually believe yourself? Pathetic.

It's also not the Confederate States of America. Not only did they lose the war, but they never even existed officially in the first place because no country on Earth recognized their self proclaimed sovereignty. CSA never technically was, never will be.
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