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Old 12-22-2015, 06:17 PM
 
Location: Boilermaker Territory
26,404 posts, read 46,566,000 times
Reputation: 19539

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Quote:
Originally Posted by freightshaker View Post
There is a market for this coal and it is substantial. The government just won't allow it to be mined. Tons of it are shipped overseas every year and more could be if not for government interference.
Why should the US be promoting the export of dirty energy to emerging markets, when even they realize that they can't make the same mistake of burning coal all the time, or end up like China.
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Old 12-22-2015, 06:17 PM
 
10,553 posts, read 9,647,340 times
Reputation: 4784
Quote:
Originally Posted by freightshaker View Post
The solar and wind energy companies are a bust. Most are either already out of business or soon will be. The whole clean energy thing is a boondoggle. The only way these businesses make money is to be subsidized by the government. We all saw how that worked with Solyndra. Wasteful spending and mismanagement on our dime costs us billions on these projects. Not to say that at some point it might become economically viable, but for right now, these forms of energy are a dirty and unprofitable JOKE.
Yes, but the oil and gas industries are highly subsidized, and have been for decades, on our dime. Alternative (meaning solar, wind, hydro) are really the only realistic options we've got for the long term. The world simply cannot continue on its current path of fossil fuel consumption or the planet will be destroyed. I do see some solar panels in Florida, and I haven't checked out the pricing and logistics, but geez it's a no-brainer. Though I wouldn't be surprised if the Rick Scott state government hasn't found a way to make solar panel use highly expensive and cost-prohibitive for the consumer.
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Old 12-22-2015, 06:22 PM
 
Location: ATX-HOU
10,216 posts, read 8,116,580 times
Reputation: 2037
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goinback2011 View Post
Obama simultaneously forces electricity prices higher and wants the middle class to subsidize the leeches' energy use.

He's the scum of the earth.
But he forces gas prices lower... So it offsets?

Amirite?

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Old 12-22-2015, 06:34 PM
 
45,573 posts, read 27,164,944 times
Reputation: 23875
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyndarn View Post
I'm NOT surprised at all!! They hate it that their longterm job is becoming defunct as time marches on..So it's easy to BLAME somebody....

It's so unfortunate really...as Fossil Fuel/Coal has been for over a century a lifetime profession for the workers..and Corporate controls/Investments has funded onerous Climate change results...

The worker's don't give a care..They want to work and provide...far different than what CORPORATE goals are!! IF not met..bye bye worker......no one but the worker suffer's..protectionism of Corporate/aka Capitalism trumps all..worker's are expendable!! Yes!!

Okay, why isn't the dying demand for COAL Corps actually supporting their worker's?? LOL sadly..because Profits is their bottomline!! Worker's who produced..mean nothing to them..only $$$$ counts!!
As I posted in the OP... Obama has a war on coal. There may be other factors involved, but he is actively involved in the demise of the industry.

This is a good balanced article that spells out the Obama/EPA factor, the economic factor, and the coal companies' own mismanagement that has spelled doom for many companies.

Coal companies have been scorched under Obama
Since Obama took office in January 2009, shares of many coal companies have plummeted more than 90%. Several companies have gone bust.

...
Shares of several coal companies crumbled further on Monday as Obama announced the new climate change initiative. Peabody Energy (BTU), Cloud Peak Energy (CLD) and Westmoreland Resource Partners (WMLP) tumbled more than 8% each.

"The EPA is setting the first ever nationwide standards to end the limitless dumping of carbon pollution from power plants," Obama said on Monday from the White House.
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Old 12-22-2015, 06:37 PM
 
Location: Lost in Texas
9,827 posts, read 6,934,401 times
Reputation: 3416
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellemint View Post
Yes, but the oil and gas industries are highly subsidized, and have been for decades, on our dime. Alternative (meaning solar, wind, hydro) are really the only realistic options we've got for the long term. The world simply cannot continue on its current path of fossil fuel consumption or the planet will be destroyed. I do see some solar panels in Florida, and I haven't checked out the pricing and logistics, but geez it's a no-brainer. Though I wouldn't be surprised if the Rick Scott state government hasn't found a way to make solar panel use highly expensive and cost-prohibitive for the consumer.
Please tell me how the gas and oil business is subsidized other than being able to write off expenses like any other company. I would like to see it. The no brainer is that we don't have the infrastructure now, and it will take 20 years to make the switch, if then. Solar and wind is not financially competitive without actual subsides and we aren't talking about tax deductions here. We are talking about literally handing out money to a business in order to make them successful. We have been doing this with the Amtrak for years and they still require REAL subsides in order to survive. Until such time as wind, solar and other forms of energy can stand on their own, they will not survive.
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Old 12-22-2015, 06:41 PM
 
Location: Somewhere extremely awesome
3,130 posts, read 3,073,305 times
Reputation: 2472
Quote:
Originally Posted by JAMS14 View Post
Appalachia is deep red. Why aren't their representatives pushing legislation to help their states out? And why do the Conservatives go after the president, who is at least attempting to provide some funding for retraining, instead of Congress, who holds the purse strings and is in Republican hands?

That's a rhetorical question. We all know the answer.
Appalachia is not deep red. They may be voting that way in certain situations right now, but at their heart, they aren't deep red. It's a surprisingly moderate region in many ways.
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Old 12-22-2015, 06:48 PM
 
Location: The Woods
18,356 posts, read 26,489,954 times
Reputation: 11350
A clean environment, and the Appalachian mountains themselves, are more valuable than a handful of jobs involved in strip mining.
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Old 12-22-2015, 06:48 PM
 
Location: deafened by howls of 'racism!!!'
52,698 posts, read 34,542,421 times
Reputation: 29285
Quote:
Originally Posted by dv1033 View Post
Ain't nobody talkin to you bout China.

TROLOLOLOLOLOL.
You already forgot writing posts 17 and 23?
good grief
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Old 12-22-2015, 06:50 PM
 
Location: Florida
23,795 posts, read 13,255,806 times
Reputation: 19952
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goinback2011 View Post
Obama simultaneously forces electricity prices higher and wants the middle class to subsidize the leeches' energy use.

He's the scum of the earth.
Seriously? Our president is the scum of the earth because you think electricity costs too much?

Our last president started two wars, invaded sovereign countries, incurred collateral damage of hundreds of thousands of innocent dead and refugees, destroyed countries' infrastructure (which they were then forced to pay for and rebuild), borrowed trillions from China to pay for it, hired a gang of thugs named Blackwater to pad the budget and soak the US taxpayer (or China) for millions, tortured and imprisoned people (some of whom were American citizens) and opened a Pandora's Box of radical terrorism in the ME which has since been unleashed across the globe.

Perhaps a hobby or outside interest might distract you from the absolute horror that is the cost of electricity in America?

And BTW, my last FPL bill was so incredibly low that I simply could not believe it. Cheapest electricity ever
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Old 12-22-2015, 06:53 PM
 
45,573 posts, read 27,164,944 times
Reputation: 23875
Quote:
Originally Posted by freightshaker View Post
Please tell me how the gas and oil business is subsidized other than being able to write off expenses like any other company. I would like to see it. The no brainer is that we don't have the infrastructure now, and it will take 20 years to make the switch, if then. Solar and wind is not financially competitive without actual subsides and we aren't talking about tax deductions here. We are talking about literally handing out money to a business in order to make them successful. We have been doing this with the Amtrak for years and they still require REAL subsides in order to survive. Until such time as wind, solar and other forms of energy can stand on their own, they will not survive.
Yes - oil and gas companies get subsidies.

From Heritage...
Oil Subsidies That Should Be Removed

First, let’s take a look at oil subsidies that are obvious and unnecessary. Congress should eliminate the following subsidies:

Government R&D. The Department of Energy (DOE) has spent taxpayer dollars on oil research and development, including funding for unconventional oil, gas, and coal. Although President Obama’s FY 2012 budget request significantly cuts funding for the Office of Fossil Energy, decreasing its size by $417.8 million below the FY 2010 appropriation, it does not go far enough. The only funding in this area should maintain the Strategic Petroleum Reserve, for which the President’s budget requests an appropriate $121.7 million. Eliminating all other fossil energy funding would save $399 million.

Enhanced Oil Recovery (EOR) Tax Credit. Oil producers receive a 15 percent tax credit for costlier methods and technologies, such as injecting liquids and carbon dioxide into the earth. Many EOR processes are no longer in use, and the tax credit applies only when the price of oil falls below a certain level.

Marginal Well Production Credit. Marginal wells produce 15 or fewer barrels of oil per day, produce heavy oil, or produce mostly water and fewer than 25 barrels of oil per day. The marginal well production credit is another safety-net tax provision. This is another preferential tax credit that Congress should repeal.


Applied research of any kind—not just oil research and development—is better left to the private sector. The private sector should not be subsidized because of market conditions, as happens with the so-called safety-net tax credits that kick in if the price of oil falls below a certain level.
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