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Old 12-27-2015, 07:27 PM
 
Location: Canada
3,869 posts, read 2,707,628 times
Reputation: 5055

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaffeetrekker View Post
8% of the Patients (on average) at the M.D. Anderson Cancer Hospital in the Houston Medical Center are "well heeled" Canadians.
I can't comment on the accuracy of the percentage, but I can well believe that Canadian cancer patients who have run out of effective treatment options in Canada might decide to sign up for clinical trials of new cancer drugs in the U.S. Sometimes these clinical trials are not offered in Canada by the drug companies.
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Old 12-27-2015, 07:36 PM
 
14,253 posts, read 15,289,410 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnirene View Post
I can't comment on the accuracy of the percentage, but I can well believe that Canadian cancer patients who have run out of effective treatment options in Canada might decide to sign up for clinical trials of new cancer drugs in the U.S. Sometimes these clinical trials are not offered in Canada by the drug companies.
I do recall that a few years ago some US hospitals were selling heavily discounted knee replacements to Canadians who did not want to wait for the treatment.

"North American Surgery has negotiated deep discounts with about two dozen surgery centers, hospitals and clinics across the United States, mainly for Canadians who are unable to get timely care in their own country. The company’s “cash” price for a knee replacement in the United States is $16,000 to $19,000, depending on the facility a patient chooses."

http://healthblog.ncpa.org/making-sense/
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Old 12-27-2015, 08:12 PM
 
33,046 posts, read 21,956,744 times
Reputation: 8962
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruSan View Post
Oh boy; popcorn, cooler and lounger are all warmed up and ready for this one.

She seems objective in her appraisal. Left out all the nonsense the big insurance and pharma lobbyist koolade drinkers like to flog.

why would you warm up a cooler?
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Old 12-27-2015, 09:21 PM
 
23,860 posts, read 11,854,701 times
Reputation: 10068
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weichert View Post
Thats ok with me. Just don't come around begging for help later.
I'm a trust fund baby. I will be fine.
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Old 12-27-2015, 09:32 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
66,196 posts, read 33,604,999 times
Reputation: 14157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Motion View Post
Interesting article about a U.S doctor working in Canada.




That is the same case in the UK.


Waiting 9 months to a year and a half for knee surgery, for torn ACL. Unless you can pay to get moved up.

Talk to guys that install(fit) flooring in the UK and ask them about being on public assistance until surgery can be done. Off work for months and months. If you lose your house, they will put you up in public housing.
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Old 12-27-2015, 10:21 PM
 
14,253 posts, read 15,289,410 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
That is the same case in the UK.


Waiting 9 months to a year and a half for knee surgery, for torn ACL. Unless you can pay to get moved up.

Talk to guys that install(fit) flooring in the UK and ask them about being on public assistance until surgery can be done. Off work for months and months. If you lose your house, they will put you up in public housing.
There are wait times but not as bad as you suggest:

"The waiting time for seven key procedures in England now ranges from 91 days, for gallstone removal, to 107 days, for a knee replacement. In just a year, the average waiting time for cataracts removal rose by a third (24 days) compared with 2013."

NHS waiting times for elective surgery spiked last year, report finds | Society | The Guardian

In the US it is a bit different. You can wait just as long but that comes from fighting with the insurance or with workers comp so that you can get the procedures paid for. Most Americans can't actually afford to pay for most procedures outside of insurance.

And you can also wait to see a specialist in the USA even if you have great insurance (which I do). I need to get an ankle looked at and the specialist had no openings for 5 weeks. My alternative? Drive over a hundred miles to Phoenix and I still have to wait almost four weeks.

The difference is that, in the UK, waiting times become a political issue. In the USA we just don't talk about them.

Truth is that we are all a bit myopic about health care. We see all the faults in everyone else's system without being really honest about the faults in our own.
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Old 12-28-2015, 01:35 PM
 
18,113 posts, read 10,302,839 times
Reputation: 13224
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrapperJohn View Post
Your first link validates that rates are more regressive in Canada. This is not up for debate.
I know our personal tax rates are higher; my intent was to show they were marginally higher, but you keep failing to add on the cost of your health insurance premiums, which for a family of four would quite handily outstrip all of our "personal" tax disparities and leaving our corporate rates far better while those same corporations payroll taxes are covering the bulk of provincial health care premiums.

So here you have it:
You pay more in taxes if you include your health insurance premiums as a tax, which you most assuredly must when comparing your tax rates with countries that provide a universal healthcare system using those taxes.
Your corporate rates are higher than Canada's and included in Canada's corporate rates are those provincial healthcare, employee premiums.

You insist on equating a choice not to have health insurance as being somehow better off on the tax front. Canadians, and I would submit to you, every other country out there with a universal system would never even consider such an option, especially if living in a country with the highest healthcare delivery costs in the free world. One misstep and you're toast!
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Old 12-28-2015, 03:02 PM
 
Location: Palo Alto
12,172 posts, read 7,020,481 times
Reputation: 4174
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruSan View Post
I know our personal tax rates are higher; my intent was to show they were marginally higher, but you keep failing to add on the cost of your health insurance premiums, which for a family of four would quite handily outstrip all of our "personal" tax disparities and leaving our corporate rates far better while those same corporations payroll taxes are covering the bulk of provincial health care premiums.

So here you have it:
You pay more in taxes if you include your health insurance premiums as a tax, which you most assuredly must when comparing your tax rates with countries that provide a universal healthcare system using those taxes.
Your corporate rates are higher than Canada's and included in Canada's corporate rates are those provincial healthcare, employee premiums.

You insist on equating a choice not to have health insurance as being somehow better off on the tax front. Canadians, and I would submit to you, every other country out there with a universal system would never even consider such an option, especially if living in a country with the highest healthcare delivery costs in the free world. One misstep and you're toast!

I don't think you realize what regressive means. The lowest quartile pays no taxes right now. And millions have no insurance so they don't pay premiums. If and when they pay them, their tax rate will skyrocket. The tax rate for those who currently have employer-sponsored plans will actually drop slightly. This is unacceptable to current liberal leaders. The only acceptable solution is the 1% paying the freight for the poorest quartile and raising taxes on the middle class.

It's not difficult to surmise why they don't and won't propose such a plan.
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Old 12-28-2015, 05:42 PM
 
2,852 posts, read 2,963,117 times
Reputation: 1178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggy001 View Post
With the exception of your first point, that is not how we, as a society, have chosen to treat our fellow citizens.

The low hanging fruit is in the fragmentation of how we pay for health care and which has led to administration costs which amount to around 25% of all health care dollars.
Exactly. So you are unwilling to change this, therefore you are unwilling to fix the problem.

It's really not hard. We can:

1) Increase rates.
2) Two-tier system (good for payers, bad for non-payers)
3) Reduce care (lower standards, less treatment for chronic illness, etc)


Quote:
Originally Posted by BruSan View Post
I know our personal tax rates are higher; my intent was to show they were marginally higher, but you keep failing to add on the cost of your health insurance premiums, which for a family of four would quite handily outstrip all of our "personal" tax disparities and leaving our corporate rates far better while those same corporations payroll taxes are covering the bulk of provincial health care premiums.

So here you have it:
You pay more in taxes if you include your health insurance premiums as a tax, which you most assuredly must when comparing your tax rates with countries that provide a universal healthcare system using those taxes.
Your corporate rates are higher than Canada's and included in Canada's corporate rates are those provincial healthcare, employee premiums.

You insist on equating a choice not to have health insurance as being somehow better off on the tax front. Canadians, and I would submit to you, every other country out there with a universal system would never even consider such an option, especially if living in a country with the highest healthcare delivery costs in the free world. One misstep and you're toast!
NY state alone had more CT scanners then the entire country of Canada.
US has lower wait times, by a good margin.
US has better non-lifestyle dependent disease outcomes.
US has better access to diagnostic equipment.
US has greater access to pharmaceuticals.
US has far more access to non-emergent surgical procedures.

The US fails in many categories, but mainly due to the population differences almost exclusively with immigrants, obese, smokers/drug use.

Canada, along with most other countries, basically strong arms US pharmaceutical companies into price fixing within the borders, something that the US government needs to fix so that the US doesn't bear the burden of paying for drug development.
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Old 12-28-2015, 06:55 PM
 
2,393 posts, read 2,053,802 times
Reputation: 1648
Six million Americans sought medical treatment outside the US
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