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Old 12-27-2015, 10:52 PM
 
Location: Chesapeake Bay
6,048 posts, read 3,874,457 times
Reputation: 3502

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
ACA isn't universal healthcare, it's a universal insurance requirement, it's always been a universal insurance requirement, and it was written by members of the Health Insurance community. In any world you choose to consider, how can a health insurance requirement result in universal healthcare?



If the right bill was passed, with acceptable levels of funding, and acceptable means to obtain that funding I don't see it being a problem. The issue isn't universal healthcare, it's how it's paid for what it provides, and whether or not people can obtain better medical care if they choose to psy for it.

The problem is that all proposals require massive costs (which is weird because we already have a well developed health infrastructure), high costs for service, and therefore require massive public support. The US spends more in public health spending than any country in Europe with a universal healthcare system, and we have to pay insurance on top of that. Where is the money going, because I've never met a poor doctor anywhere in the world (although surprisingly I've met some in the US who seem like they're not exactly flush). Why does the public contribution to health spending exceed per capita European levels, but still require the provision of insurance? How is it that Germany, France, Switzerland and the UK can provide complete health care with less expenditure than the US does in solely public funding? There's something significantly wrong with US healthcare, and the ACA does nothing to address it.
Take a good long look at Medicare. It already has all the structures in place nationwide.

Today it is competitive with ACA in the age 60-64 age brackets (even though its for ages 65+). And it is in both cost and coverage. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the private health insurance companies concede that advantage in the near future. After all, they are already very much involved in Medicare thru their Medigap and Advantage plans and it would cost them very little to make that concession.

And with that one concession, an entirely different system evolves. The insurance companies know that and would likely accept it. Especially if they want to remain in business.

Last edited by Weichert; 12-27-2015 at 11:19 PM..
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Old 12-27-2015, 11:49 PM
 
Location: The Lone Star State
8,031 posts, read 7,638,489 times
Reputation: 5042
Quote:
Originally Posted by JAMS14 View Post
Well, we've found out that we sure can't count on the fundamentalist Christians, who believe Jesus would be in the top 1% surrounded by a cache of guns and ammo, hoarding wealth while denying those less fortunate food or healthcare or even a living wage.
Yep, this is exactly how it is. They'll also chain you up, throw holy water on you, and your skin will disintegrate like a vampire in the sun.

Behold, the nonsense that runs through the brains of clueless religion-hating leftists scared of big bad Christian boogeyman.
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Old 12-28-2015, 02:50 AM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,538,049 times
Reputation: 7830
Quote:
Originally Posted by sxrckr View Post
Yep, this is exactly how it is. They'll also chain you up, throw holy water on you, and your skin will disintegrate like a vampire in the sun.

Behold, the nonsense that runs through the brains of clueless religion-hating leftists scared of big bad Christian boogeyman.
Actually that is a pretty good description of far right wing Bible thumpers that we see on here regularly. Well that is when Christian right wingers are flailing on the ground playing the victim card.
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Old 12-28-2015, 06:46 AM
 
34,326 posts, read 18,592,757 times
Reputation: 7585
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Republicans who have fought to prevent every American from having health insurance is the problem.
Not a single repub voted for it, tell us why the dems did not put any and everything in it they wanted?
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Old 12-28-2015, 11:49 AM
 
15,736 posts, read 9,257,235 times
Reputation: 14227
Quote:
Originally Posted by JAMS14 View Post
What do you envision taking the ACA's place? Or do you see all of the people who are now insured through the law just becoming uninsured once again? Since I'd be one of those people, I'm interested in what your long term vision is on this subject.
You mean the same number of uninsured before ACA, that is the same number of uninsured under ACA?
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Old 12-28-2015, 12:48 PM
mm4
 
5,711 posts, read 3,140,983 times
Reputation: 1941
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Republicans who have fought to prevent every American from having health insurance is the problem.
If you want to insure your pent-up assets so that you can use them only for vacays and other fun things, instead of for rainy days, then go for it.

But you have no right to force others to contribute to your insurance pool so that provider and hospital corp. costs are inflated because of a guaranteed income stream to them that you created.
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Old 12-28-2015, 01:02 PM
 
Location: in the soup
3,889 posts, read 1,644,521 times
Reputation: 4507
Jesus said that if a man asks something of you- give it to him. (he didn't say that they were moochers and needed to get a damn job)

Jesus said that if a man asks you for your coat- also give him your cloak. (this is obviously a very general statement. Please give me socialized healthcare. Now. And thanks for the Guaranteed Minimum Income also!)

Jesus said that if a man slaps you in the face- turn the other cheek toward him and let him slap that one too. (or invade their countries, kill hundreds of thousands of people, and build enough nukes to wipe out life on earth like American 'christians')

Jesus was buddies with AT LEAST two tax collectors. And he specifically said to pay your taxes. Give to Caesar what is Caesar's. (no room for tax-protesters here. This is the word of your supposed GOD)

Jesus said to LOVE your enemies and pray for them. (think 'love' means building a police state, invading countries, and hating/legislating against anybody who doesn't suit you? That's the opposite of what Jesus taught)

Jesus said that his greatest commandment was to love your neighbor as yourself- and that includes your enemies. (But American Christians are too scared to do that. They demand to hide behind a massive military that's draining their country's resources, and a police state the likes of which hasn't been seen since fascism. Jesus taught love, forgiveness, and courage. American Christians LIVE hate, spite, vengeance, and cowardice).

Jesus used the parable of the Good Samaritan (an ENEMY of the Jews), demonstrating that the fulfillment of his greatest commandment was by a hated enemy, a refugee... NOT by the established church (the priest and the Levite). (That Samaritan could've just as easily been a Muslim or an illegal immigrant in a modern context. Christians- your supposed 'god' says you have to love and forgive them. But we know you won't)

Jesus fought repeatedly with authority- particularly organized religion. In fact he had NOTHING good to say about organized religion. Jesus said to pray in your closet and NOT in public. (doesn't stop all these self-righteous christ-o-fascists from publicly praying every chance they get in every government function and teevee appearance they can get their hands on. Demanding that children be compelled by the state to pray in school. Jesus specifically said that for public prayer, you have already received your reward... in other words it's a meaningless spectacle. And I'd argue that it's in the same spirit as taking your supposed lord's name in vain)

Jesus specifically preached against a strict, legalistic interpretation of religious law. He preached forgiveness- it was his primary theme. NOT judgement and legislation like most christians practice. Jesus hung out with whores- he loved them! Whereas today's "christians" pass laws and spread hate (PRECISELY like the Pharisees that Jesus fought).

Jesus said to help the poor. He blessed them and had NOTHING bad to say about them. Jesus never told them to get a job. Never blamed them. In fact he commanded ya'll "christians" NOT to judge!

Jesus HATED the rich. He said that for a rich man to get into heaven, he has to give ALL his possessions to the poor and come follow him. He said that is the ONLY way that rich person can go to heaven, and that it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get to heaven (meaning that they will pretty well all go to hell. This definitely included Billy Graham, Ted Cruz... basically all of the high-profile moralizers in America). Whereas American "christians" practically WORSHIP their Holy Job Creators and show nothing but disdain, revulsion, and hatred for the poor.

Jesus said to visit people in prison, and to forgive people. Pretty much the opposite of America's tough-on-crime 'christians'. American 'christians' want harsher sentences (LESS forgiveness), harsher conditions (LESS forgiveness), and have nothing to hate for people in prison. Though their supposed 'god' said to love them.





So with all that said, it's pretty obvious that Jesus would support GIVING people the healthcare they asked for. And PAYING the taxes to make it happen. He could not have been more clear.

Now, I'm not a religious man. The hatred, judgement, willful ignorance, and hypocrisy of the American Christian culture that I grew up with has cured me of that. I'll never be one of you. But if I WERE a religious man, and if I DID think the bible was anything more than a mythology- I could only conclude that American Christians represent precisely the OPPOSITE of everything Jesus taught. If there's an ounce of truth to anything Jesus said, then Modern American Christianity is the Anti-Christ Religion of greed and hate.
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Old 12-28-2015, 01:04 PM
 
Location: in the soup
3,889 posts, read 1,644,521 times
Reputation: 4507
Quote:
Originally Posted by mm4 View Post
If you want to insure your pent-up assets so that you can use them only for vacays and other fun things, instead of for rainy days, then go for it.

But you have no right to force others to contribute to your insurance pool so that provider and hospital corp. costs are inflated because of a guaranteed income stream to them that you created.
Please give me your coat.

Jesus says you have to do it now (and your cloak too).

Are you gonna defy your "savior"?



Please give me socialized healthcare.

Jesus specifically said that you have to give me what I ask.

Are you gonna defy your "savior" again?
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Old 12-28-2015, 05:21 PM
 
Location: Places you dream of
20,272 posts, read 12,132,962 times
Reputation: 8788
]You can have my coat. He will give me another
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Old 12-28-2015, 05:36 PM
 
20,783 posts, read 13,781,027 times
Reputation: 14444
On average federal government covers about 60% of any state's Medicaid costs. That number was before ObamaCare's promise to cover 100% of the costs for new enrollees for a certain period dropping to 90%. So in essence the costs while not being paid by states are transferred to the federal government. Fair enough, but where will Congress find the money?
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