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Old 12-30-2015, 07:39 AM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
30,391 posts, read 20,035,016 times
Reputation: 8320

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smash255 View Post
What this is about is someone decided they were above the law and wanted to use their religious beliefs as a way to excuse breaking the law and specifically anti-discrimination law in the state of Oregon. This has NOTHING to do with anything against any specific religion, it has to do with anti discrimination law in Oregon, period.



And you oppose religious exemptions like those that were once permitted by the Sherbert test and the federal RFRA?

Last edited by momonkey; 12-30-2015 at 07:49 AM..
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Old 12-30-2015, 07:43 AM
 
Location: Long Island
32,709 posts, read 13,820,479 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
I am correct. The business owner pays FICA. And the reasonable accommodation comes into play when the owner refers a client to another bakery that may provide the service requested.
Business owners or employees do not get to refer gay people to other bakeries. Owners do not get to claim reasonable accomodation and send patrons away that has nothing to do with reasonable accomodation. But if you think that owners are within their rights claiming accomodation then bring it up to the EEO.
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Old 12-30-2015, 07:56 AM
 
Location: Long Island
32,709 posts, read 13,820,479 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981 View Post
well, with BBIIIIIIIIIIIG government and people like you (no offense), free market, OF COURSE, does not exist or does not work. bolded really doesn't matter, there are different types of people living in this world. Like I said, I don't agree with them, nor do I like them, but yes, I would want to leave them alone. I will NEVER ruin other people's businesses because I believe religious awareness is highly individual. Maybe you should consider giving people benefit of the doubt sometimes, not everybody uses religion as "excuse."
Truly free markets don't work very well that is why we have laws. I don't know that this is the case with them but it sure was withthe clerk Kim Davis, she chooses the parts of her relgion whe wants to live by fairly selectively. No issue with someone at least being consistent but it should be left out of businesses.
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Old 12-30-2015, 08:01 AM
 
Location: Long Island
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
They can indeed legally refuse to sell product that violates their religious beliefs: bacon, pork, etc.

If you want things your way, work towards exempting business owners from FICA, etc.
True but if you choose to sell bacon you can't refuse to sell to some people based on religious beliefs.
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Old 12-30-2015, 08:07 AM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
30,391 posts, read 20,035,016 times
Reputation: 8320
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
Business owners or employees do not get to refer gay people to other bakeries. Owners do not get to claim reasonable accomodation and send patrons away that has nothing to do with reasonable accomodation. But if you think that owners are within their rights claiming accomodation then bring it up to the EEO.


Gay people are accommodated daily at Christian bakeries with bagels, doughnuts, pastries of all sorts and even special order cakes that are not intended for a same-sex wedding.


So let`s be clear that it is not the case that Christian bakers are referring homosexuals to other bakeries for any accommodation short of a same-sex wedding cake.


With many other bakeries happy to provide such a cake, the only motive for singling out Christian bakeries and refusing to take no for an answer is that the Gaystapo has declared war on Christianity.
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Old 12-30-2015, 08:07 AM
 
Location: NE Ohio
30,194 posts, read 16,569,151 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
"[i]t should be left out of businesses."
Why? If religion should be left out of business, does that mean we should feel free to lie, cheat, and steal, as long as it involves only business? The obvious answer to that is, "Of course not." Scripture tells us that everything we do should be guided by our faith.

Christians do not "check their faith" at the front door when they leave for the office in the morning. Nor should they. Our faith informs our judgement about all things. The baker of wedding cakes was within her right to choose not to help this client to celebrate a perverted lifestyle. As was the photographer, who refused service on the same grounds. The law is wrong. The law is in violation of the First Amendment. It's that simple.

Obviously, you aren't a Christian.

Last edited by nononsenseguy; 12-30-2015 at 08:23 AM..
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Old 12-30-2015, 08:08 AM
 
11,758 posts, read 5,524,838 times
Reputation: 7964
Hmmm, maybe because in this country, we protect the rights of minority groups, not majority group. Not fair? The majority group doesn't need protection - if they do, it is from other members of majority group who promulgate these laws and regulations, not the minority groups that don't have the voting power to effectuate such laws and regulations. In other words, blame other Christians that made these regs and rulings.

Mick
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Old 12-30-2015, 08:09 AM
 
Location: Long Island
32,709 posts, read 13,820,479 times
Reputation: 6934
Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey View Post
Gay people are accommodated daily at Christian bakeries with bagels, doughnuts, pastries of all sorts and even special order cakes that are not intended for a same-sex wedding.


So let`s be clear that it is not the case that Christian bakers are referring homosexuals to other bakeries for any accommodation short of a same-sex wedding cake.


With many other bakeries happy to provide such a cake, the only motive for singling out Christian bakeries and refusing to take no for an answer is that the Gaystapo has declared war on Christianity.
I did not see that clearly stated in an article regarding this specific bakery, still it is a violation
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Old 12-30-2015, 08:13 AM
 
Location: Long Island (chief in S Farmingdale)
18,977 posts, read 15,432,602 times
Reputation: 3946
Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey View Post
Gay people are accommodated daily at Christian bakeries with bagels, doughnuts, pastries of all sorts and even special order cakes that are not intended for a same-sex wedding.


So let`s be clear that it is not the case that Christian bakers are referring homosexuals to other bakeries for any accommodation short of a same-sex wedding cake.


With many other bakeries happy to provide such a cake, the only motive for singling out Christian bakeries and refusing to take no for an answer is that the Gaystapo has declared war on Christianity.

If a business offers a specific service they can't discriminate on who they offer the service to, it is pretty much as simple as that.
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Old 12-30-2015, 08:13 AM
 
Location: Long Island
32,709 posts, read 13,820,479 times
Reputation: 6934
Quote:
Originally Posted by nononsenseguy View Post
Why? If religion should be left out of business, does that mean we should feel free to lie, cheat, and steal, as long as it involves only business? The obvious answer to that is, "Of course not." Scripture tells us that everything we do should be guided by our faith.

Christians do not "check their faith" at the front door when they leave for the office in the morning. Nor should they.

Obviously, you aren't a Christian.
There are many great values in religion that can be used in business but when it comes in conflict with someones rights it is an issue.

By the way there are many relgious people that don't necessarily carry over the teachings to business.

Last edited by Goodnight; 12-30-2015 at 08:54 AM..
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