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Old 12-31-2015, 07:22 AM
 
Location: Long Island (chief in S Farmingdale)
22,190 posts, read 19,462,661 times
Reputation: 5305

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Quote:
Originally Posted by carolac View Post
When you are hiring anyone for a job, tell them what is expected of them, in this case, loading, handling, delivering beer, ask them if they have any kind of problem with that, and have them sign a statement and have them put in their own handwriting that they understand they will load, handle, deliver beer, have no problem doing so. I'd even consider videotaping it, letting the applicant know they are being videotaped.

These guys knew their job was to deliver beer when they were hired. They knew this was a beer distributing company. Unless employers are going to be forced to hire Muslims to stand around, lest they get sued, they are going to have to get a lot more savvy in dealing with this.
There is a reasonable accommodation clause in which employers have to accommodate religious beliefs of their employers if it doesn't have more than a minimal impact on their business. In this particular case it was trading what they were hauling with other employees. The company admitted in court they did not attempt a "reasonable accommodation" and that having the Muslim employees trade shipments with other employees would not have an impact on the business.
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Old 12-31-2015, 07:25 AM
 
Location: Seymour, CT
3,639 posts, read 3,340,370 times
Reputation: 3089
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Incorrect. There are religions which forbid SSM:

Where Christian churches, other religions stand on gay marriage | Pew Research Center

Bakers, just like everyone else, have the First Amendment Right to exercise their religion.
Unless that exercise is going to refuse service in a company that serves the public due to sexual orientation. The law is clear in Oregon. They broke the law, period.

Also, they released private information. First and foremost THAT is one of the big deciding factors in their charges.
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Old 12-31-2015, 07:43 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,026 posts, read 44,824,472 times
Reputation: 13711
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolf39us View Post
Unless that exercise is going to refuse service in a company that serves the public due to sexual orientation. The law is clear in Oregon. They broke the law, period.
Hmmm... sure don't see an "unless" in the First Amendment. What it DOES say is no law shall be passed which prohibits one from freely exercising one's religion. And as I've already shown, some religions do in fact prohibit SSM.
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Old 12-31-2015, 08:01 AM
 
Location: Seymour, CT
3,639 posts, read 3,340,370 times
Reputation: 3089
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Hmmm... sure don't see an "unless" in the First Amendment. What it DOES say is no law shall be passed which prohibits one from freely exercising one's religion. And as I've already shown, some religions do in fact prohibit SSM.
The free exercise of religion is not an end all be all.

For example, if your religion commanded you to take your unmarried non virgin daughter to her father's front door and have the town throw stones at her until she dies (Deuteronomy 22:19-21), then you wouldn't be able to do so under the free exercise clause because of OTHER laws in place preventing this type of exercise.
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Old 12-31-2015, 08:17 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,026 posts, read 44,824,472 times
Reputation: 13711
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolf39us View Post
The free exercise of religion is not an end all be all.
It's a First Amendment Right, and one that specifically states that no law can be passed prohibiting that Right.

Quote:
For example, if your religion commanded you to take your unmarried non virgin daughter to her father's front door and have the town throw stones at her until she dies (Deuteronomy 22:19-21), then you wouldn't be able to do so under the free exercise clause because of OTHER laws in place preventing this type of exercise.
Which religion commands that? Seems you're confusing Bible verses with actual religious practices and prohibitions.

You'd be surprised at the variety of people helped by actually observing our First Amendment Right to exercise our religion freely:

http://thefederalist.com/2015/03/30/...like-indianas/
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Old 12-31-2015, 08:21 AM
 
Location: Long Island (chief in S Farmingdale)
22,190 posts, read 19,462,661 times
Reputation: 5305
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
It's a First Amendment Right, and one that specifically states that no law can be passed prohibiting that Right.

Which religion commands that? Seems you're confusing Bible verses with actual religious practices and prohibitions.

You'd be surprised at the variety of people helped by actually observing our First Amendment Right to exercise our religion freely:

http://www.ca5.uscourts.gov/opinions...58-CV0.wpd.pdf

10 Americans Helped By Religious Freedom Bills Like Indiana's

They can freely practice their religion, however they can't use their religion as an excuse not to follow business law. If they feel certain aspects of following the law in their business violates their religious beliefs then don't do that sort of business.
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Old 12-31-2015, 08:26 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,026 posts, read 44,824,472 times
Reputation: 13711
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smash255 View Post
They can freely practice their religion, however they can't use their religion as an excuse not to follow business law.
Sure they can. Read the 10 examples in my previous post. All involved broke laws in the process of freely exercising their religion, as the Constitution states. In all 10 cases, legitimate Constitutional religious freedom trumped local, state, or federal law.
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Old 12-31-2015, 08:53 AM
 
13,303 posts, read 7,870,141 times
Reputation: 2144
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Incorrect. There are religions which forbid SSM:

Where Christian churches, other religions stand on gay marriage | Pew Research Center

Bakers, just like everyone else, have the First Amendment Right to exercise their religion.
The very . . . The very . . . The Last Supper comprised a Baker's Dozen.
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Old 12-31-2015, 09:20 AM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
38,642 posts, read 26,378,527 times
Reputation: 12648
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smash255 View Post
If a business offers a specific service they can't discriminate on who they offer the service to, it is pretty much as simple as that.




I believe the bakeries in question offer no special order wedding cakes for same-sex weddings to anyone, either heterosexual or homosexual.
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Old 12-31-2015, 09:31 AM
 
Location: Long Island (chief in S Farmingdale)
22,190 posts, read 19,462,661 times
Reputation: 5305
Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey View Post
I believe the bakeries in question offer no special order wedding cakes for same-sex weddings to anyone, either heterosexual or homosexual.
They offer wedding cakes period. The type of wedding doesn't matter.
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