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Old 12-30-2015, 05:07 AM
 
78,079 posts, read 33,277,428 times
Reputation: 15601

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Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye View Post
This is a life or death decision. 1 second can be one second too long. 1.7 seconds was time enough to get out of the police car, draw their weapons, and then for Loehmann to shoot. At 195 pounds; how could our police know that Tamir was only a boy with a toy gun?
Fine, say that.....don't say you continue to give him multiple warnings.

Quote:
Tamir's mother should have never left her son play with that gun in a public place.
Who says she did?

Quote:
Tamir, at 12, should have known better than to intimidate strangers with the toy. But the 911 dispatcher set the stage for the shooting; she never relayed all of the information she had (she never said that the original caller said that Tamir was probably a juvenile and the gun was probably fake). That set the stage for Tamir's death. Just a few words to the police could have changed the outcome. Is it clear what Constance Hollinger relayed to Beth Mandl? We do know that the police never received all of the information: Cleveland dispatcher who handled Tamir Rice shooting has previous arrest, was fired from previous dispatcher job | cleveland.com.
The Cleveland Police force set the stage when they didn't bother to do a proper background check on someone another police force had determined to be too mentally unstable to be a police officer. What is maybe the most astounding thing about this is that despite this, and despite his lies he is still a police officer.

This is what this is all about. I know many here seem to think that if you live in the inner city you are ignorant and have no clue what is going on but they do.

A police officer can lie and nothing happens. They sell a couple loose cigarettes on the street corner and they get jumped by the cops and strangled.

Work for the government and steal $400,000 dollars and you can get away with it but ride a bike with headphones on you get jumped and shot.


Quote:
So, here you are, blaming the White guy that did his job. He rushed towards the suspect, putting his own life in jeopardy, and he tried to save other lives. That is why we have a police force. Your anger is all focused on the police officer and not on the other critical figures in Tamir's death.
He drove up, well rode up towards the subject and then lied about what happened. If it had been legitimate police work he would not have had to lie.

Yes, the police must be held to a higher standard than a 12 year old.
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Old 12-30-2015, 05:39 AM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
14,288 posts, read 11,634,865 times
Reputation: 10692
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Yes, the police must be held to a higher standard than a 12 year old.

Our police would have been dead in any similar circumstance with any real shooter. They put their lives on the line to save the public.


The fallout from your kind of scrutiny is that they don't respond when needed or they take too long and keep their distance. Yes, it might save the next Tamir; but it isn't going to save the majority of victims that die everyday. Next time there is a case of domestic violence; why don't you respond - just tell the officers that you are there to save lives. The point is who do we count on to clean up our problems; we don't want to do it - so who?


And going back to your fascination with 1.7 seconds, like others have said, where is your proof of what happened? You are simply stating your feelings.
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Old 12-30-2015, 05:52 AM
 
78,079 posts, read 33,277,428 times
Reputation: 15601
Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye View Post
Our police would have been dead in any similar circumstance with any real shooter. They put their lives on the line to save the public.


The fallout from your kind of scrutiny is that they don't respond when needed or they take too long and keep their distance. Yes, it might save the next Tamir; but it isn't going to save the majority of victims that die everyday. Next time there is a case of domestic violence; why don't you respond - just tell the officers that you are there to save lives. The point is who do we count on to clean up our problems; we don't want to do it - so who?


And going back to your fascination with 1.7 seconds, like others have said, where is your proof of what happened? You are simply stating your feelings.
My position that police can NOT lie does not put a single officer at risk. Your position that they can lie and should be able to get away with it is what is putting them at risk.

This isn't ending here. My proof has been documented in many of the sources that were posted here. You might try reading one now and then.

You seemed to have ignored the mentally unstable aspect. Can I assume it's because you are O.K. with that also or do you think I'm just making that up also?
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Old 12-30-2015, 06:13 AM
 
Location: Long Island
32,712 posts, read 13,825,147 times
Reputation: 6934
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Not in this case.

Benza said he thinks McGinty "got the results that he wants." Like Harris, Benza said he thinks the case bolsters the idea that outside prosecutors should handle police use-of-force cases.

He also said that after watching the news conference, the most glaring thing that McGinty and fellow prosecutor Matthew Meyer said was that they asked the grand jury whether these officers are guilty of a crime.

Historically, grand juries decide whether enough evidence exists to criminally charge a defendant. That is a lower standard than determining whether a person is guilty of a crime.

"That's not a question for the grand jury," Benza said, "that's a question for trial."

Tamir Rice grand jury decision: What the experts are saying | cleveland.com
This has come up many times, how does a DA objectively bring charges against police officers when they work with them. Rather large conflict of interest and I do not see them agressive pursuing evidence to indict in many of these cases.
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Old 12-30-2015, 06:13 AM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
14,288 posts, read 11,634,865 times
Reputation: 10692
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
My position that police can NOT lie does not put a single officer at risk. Your position that they can lie and should be able to get away with it is what is putting them at risk.

This isn't ending here. My proof has been documented in many of the sources that were posted here. You might try reading one now and then.

You seemed to have ignored the mentally unstable aspect. Can I assume it's because you are O.K. with that also or do you think I'm just making that up also?

I am not ignoring anything and I am looking at the fallout of this case and other similar cases. Neighborhoods get burned down and good, hard working minorities are out of work. Insurance coverage for businesses goes up and some will never be rebuilt. Good people call for help and the response takes time - if any show up.


Read my post; I never said our police should lie. I do think that they might interpret what they think they said. Of course that goes back to the dispatcher and the woman that received the call and why they did not do (as their policy requires) - they did not give all of the information to the officers. They sat this stage.


As far as mental stability; what did he do that proved his unsuitability for the job. He placed his life in jeopardy and all he knew was there was a potential, active, shooter.


The Grand Jury went over this case with a fine tooth comb. They found no reason to charge the police officer. If you have proof of wrong doing; go to the DA. Maybe they were not given all of the evidence; but that is not evident at this time. You will have to convince them and not me!
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Old 12-30-2015, 06:21 AM
 
78,079 posts, read 33,277,428 times
Reputation: 15601
Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye View Post
I am not ignoring anything and I am looking at the fallout of this case and other similar cases. Neighborhoods get burned down and good, hard working minorities are out of work. Insurance coverage for businesses goes up and some will never be rebuilt. Good people call for help and the response takes time - if any show up.
And to think the solution to this is so simple. Start treating everyone the same.

Quote:
Read my post; I never said our police should lie. I do think that they might interpret what they think they said. Of course that goes back to the dispatcher and the woman that received the call and why they did not do (as their policy requires) - they did not give all of the information to the officers. They sat this stage.
You didn't say they should lie but you did say that there should not be repercussions when they do.

Quote:
As far as mental stability; what did he do that proved his unsuitability for the job. He placed his life in jeopardy and all he knew was there was a potential, active, shooter.
I'm not running circles with someone pleading ignorance when you are not. I guess you are indeed O.K. with this also and you wonder why people are protesting and rioting.

Quote:
The Grand Jury went over this case with a fine tooth comb.
Sorry, I can't resist......how do you know, were you there?
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Old 12-30-2015, 06:28 AM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
14,288 posts, read 11,634,865 times
Reputation: 10692
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Sorry, I can't resist......how do you know, were you there?

Where you there? Since post #4 you have been screaming about the police lying.
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Old 12-30-2015, 06:32 AM
 
78,079 posts, read 33,277,428 times
Reputation: 15601
Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye View Post
Where you there? Since post #4 you have been screaming about the police lying.
I've documented it many times in this thread.
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Old 12-30-2015, 06:49 AM
 
Location: Jewel Lake (Sagle) Idaho
27,213 posts, read 17,520,119 times
Reputation: 15404
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Too bad the parents failed so badly in raising this child. Don't want to get shot by police? Don't point guns at them. Simple concept. Don't want police attention? Don't take a gun to a public park and point it at other people.
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Old 12-30-2015, 06:53 AM
 
10,710 posts, read 13,621,239 times
Reputation: 6218
People really have to be warped to see this as anything other than a tragedy. I'm pretty sure my 9 year old knows that if you wave a gun at a cop you are going to get shot, so why didn't this 12 year old know that? His parents have themselves to blame, no one else.
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