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Old 12-31-2015, 11:00 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,510 posts, read 2,936,232 times
Reputation: 6379

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I've been reading up more on this law and wow, talk about being ripe for abuse. You don't even have to be a family member or a neighbor to report someone as a threat, at which point their guns are confiscated for 21 days, with no indication that you will immediately get them back after 21 days.


Quote:

Additionally, court documents state that even if you don’t have the necessary relationship, you may notify law enforcement of a potential problem, and an officer could investigate and file a petition for the order.
Quote:

There is no ability to defend against this initial order until the 21 days has elapsed. Once the 21 day period has expired, there can be a hearing to determine if the 21 days was enough and the order can be extended for up to one year.



The whole thing relies on the person claiming the gun owner is unstable and the field evaluation by a cop. So basically, you're losing your guns for 21 days, without warning and there isn't anything that you can do about it.





No due process until your property has been confiscated and even then there's no telling when you get it back based on a convoluted court process. That is the worst part of this to me. That you can have your stuff taken from you simply on the basis of an unsupported complaint from a complete stranger if the investigating police officer feels like it. Supposedly someone who makes a false complaint can get charged with a misdemeanor offense but somehow I doubt very many DA's will be trying to make a case off of that. Prove that someone didn't threaten you or say something off-color that you took the wrong way.


















Not to mention that this sounds like a hell of an end-run around the 4th Amendment as well. Makes a convenient excuse for the police to search your stuff too.









"So we heard you have a gun and are a threat to others."


"Who said that, I don't have any guns"




"We can't tell you but we have this search warrant and we're going to look very CLOSELY for that gun,but only that gun, scouts honor."






Quote:
This bill would allow a search warrant to be issued when the property or things to be seized are firearms or ammunition or both that are owned by, in the possession of, or in the custody or control of, a person who is the subject of a gun violence restraining order if a prohibited firearm or ammunition or both is possessed, owned, in the custody of, or controlled by a person against whom a gun violence restraining order has been issued, the person has been lawfully served with that order, and the person has failed to relinquish the firearm as required by law. The bill would also require the law enforcement officer executing a search warrant issued upon that ground to take custody of any firearm or ammunition that is in the restrained person’s custody or control or possession or that is owned by the restrained person, which is discovered pursuant to a consensual or other lawful search and would provide rules for executing the search warrant when the location to be searched is jointly occupied by the restrained person and one or more other persons.











And before people go off on the "well it still has to be approved by a judge" tangent....judges approve all sorts of stupid stuff for the most specious of reasons all the time.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...0121&tid=ss_fb

Last edited by Juram; 12-31-2015 at 11:15 PM..

 
Old 12-31-2015, 11:04 PM
 
18,100 posts, read 19,861,860 times
Reputation: 26532
Quote:
Originally Posted by brrabbit View Post
BTW, registration of long guns is not required in California, and pistols is required but not really enforced...

Wrongo Bongo.
Read up on California gun laws
 
Old 12-31-2015, 11:16 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
30,893 posts, read 13,428,225 times
Reputation: 21991
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juram View Post
I've been reading up more on this law and wow, talk about being ripe for abuse. You don't even have to be a family member or a neighbor to report someone as a threat, at which point their guns are confiscated for 21 days, with no indication that you will immediately get them back after 21 days. The whole thing relies on the person claiming the gun owner is unstable and the field evaluation by a cop.
What are you talking about 'you don't have to be a family member or a neighbor to report someone as a threat'? The same criteria would be used by a police officer to determine whether there was a domestic violence as they do now, there is currently no requirement that a family member call the police, hell a cop can drive past your house and see you getting all crazy with your spouse and stop to investigate, or you or your spouse can call the cops.

If you are worried about losing your guns for 21 days, then be careful about who you live with. My husband and I have guns but we learned a long time ago to resolve our arguments peacefully so we don't have to worry about losing our weapons.
 
Old 01-01-2016, 07:09 AM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,857,589 times
Reputation: 7441
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juram View Post
Its not always that simple or straightforward.


A few years ago one of my coworkers was attacked by his crazy ex, called the police to get her out of his home, the police showed up, he had marks all over his face and neck, she didnt have a scratch, the police took HIM to jail. The DA eventually dropped the case as she had a prior record of this sort of thing but she didnt suffer legal repercussions of any kind.

During the time that he was in there she tore his place up, destroyed a whole bunch of his stuff. He ended having to sue her in civil court. He won on summary judgment, he's still trying to collect 3 years later.
Off topic but....
Guys are so discriminated against in domestic situations. I knew of a couple, and the wife was a nightmare!! She threw crap, kicked, slapped this poor guy all the time. She would have exploding episodes. Who got all the sympathy from there friends? She did of course. I finally had to remove myself from them, it was just hard to watch. My husband said he told him he was going to leave after the kids were grown because he felt so bad for them. I've seen this more than once in my life, women always feel free to beat up a guy because they know he'll feel like he has to take it.
And like your coworker, one time someone called the cops on them while she was ragging and guess who they took.
 
Old 01-01-2016, 07:28 AM
 
Location: Formerly Pleasanton Ca, now in Marietta Ga
5,280 posts, read 4,023,521 times
Reputation: 7034
Quote:
Originally Posted by brrabbit View Post
BTW, registration of long guns is not required in California, and pistols is required but not really enforced...
And this is why it's hard to have an intelligent discussion about things like this. When people start spouting off things like this that are not true to make a point it just confuses the issue. I'd like to know where you got this idea that the guns don't need to be registered? Can you direct me to a accurate source for this? Or are you just popping off a comment to make it look like you actually know something?
I own several long guns and a handgun and every single one is registered. When I bought them in California I had to go through the 10 day waiting process while they checked me out and then I can pick up my purchased gun which is now registered with the state.
 
Old 01-01-2016, 11:46 AM
 
9,566 posts, read 5,900,185 times
Reputation: 6471
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ummagumma View Post
As evidenced by what ? His wife's words against his ?

Not to sound sexist but I've seen very few men to sink as low - and to be as inventive, as evil and as tenacious at this - as their wives would do during a bad divorce.

It also doesn't help that even an obvious lie by a vindictive woman usually goes unpunished. She can be calling the cops on her husband 5x a week and won't even get a slap on the wrist. At the absolutely worst, she may end up with less than ideal custody arrangements - I've seen this happen more than a couple of times, and every time it was a female judge who wouldn't let them get away with lies and manipulations. Never a male judge - I guess they're too cautious. Yet if a guy was caught tutoring his kids on how to land mommy in jail, he'd be in a world of hurt. The pendulum had swung too far.

So essentially you think it's alright for a man to pull a gun on his wife?
.
 
Old 01-01-2016, 12:28 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
4,760 posts, read 6,407,764 times
Reputation: 5236
Quote:
Originally Posted by beb0p View Post
So essentially you think it's alright for a man to pull a gun on his wife?
.
Only you have said anything about pulling a gun on anyone. No one has mentioned such a thing so far. That creates a totally different scenario than just an argument and a bitter woman.
 
Old 01-01-2016, 12:49 PM
eok
 
6,684 posts, read 3,151,992 times
Reputation: 8459
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
My husband and I have guns but we learned a long time ago to resolve our arguments peacefully so we don't have to worry about losing our weapons.
That also saves ammo.
 
Old 01-01-2016, 12:55 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
30,893 posts, read 13,428,225 times
Reputation: 21991
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
Off topic but....
Guys are so discriminated against in domestic situations. I knew of a couple, and the wife was a nightmare!! She threw crap, kicked, slapped this poor guy all the time. She would have exploding episodes. Who got all the sympathy from there friends? She did of course. I finally had to remove myself from them, it was just hard to watch. My husband said he told him he was going to leave after the kids were grown because he felt so bad for them. I've seen this more than once in my life, women always feel free to beat up a guy because they know he'll feel like he has to take it.
And like your coworker, one time someone called the cops on them while she was ragging and guess who they took.
People who remain in toxic relationships have far bigger problems than losing their guns for 21 days.
 
Old 01-01-2016, 01:14 PM
 
Location: Milwaukee, WI
2,147 posts, read 1,600,809 times
Reputation: 2365
Quote:
Originally Posted by aslowdodge View Post
And this is why it's hard to have an intelligent discussion about things like this. When people start spouting off things like this that are not true to make a point it just confuses the issue. I'd like to know where you got this idea that the guns don't need to be registered? Can you direct me to a accurate source for this? Or are you just popping off a comment to make it look like you actually know something?
I own several long guns and a handgun and every single one is registered. When I bought them in California I had to go through the 10 day waiting process while they checked me out and then I can pick up my purchased gun which is now registered with the state.
I know a few things as a gun owner formerly living in Los Angeles. When you buy a new gun, it is supposed to go through FFL even if it is a private party transfer or inherited. However, that requirement is only for acquisition of new guns. If you own some prior to arriving to CA, you don't need to register them. There is a requirement to register hand guns within first month after the gun crosses the border, but how can you trace the date when it actually crossed that border? And what is the punishment if it's not been registered? I bet if you ever find that out, you must be in for much more trouble then just not registering a handgun.

The source? I saw it on NRA web site.


[Later edit] Ouch, I found out that registration of both long guns and pistols are required now within 60 days... It wasn't there when I lived in LA a few years back, must be a new thing (2014-2015 probably).... Good luck to them to get anyone registering their firearms ) But apparently, life goes on and things generally move from bad to worse.
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