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Old 12-30-2015, 10:33 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
12,300 posts, read 7,939,585 times
Reputation: 6464

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
Then you go to the hearing and get your guns back & file for divorce. What if the 'ex' is telling the truth, do you really think it's smart to leave guns in the house when someone has threatened violence?
What other civil rights should we suspend without proof and only the word of one person?

Due process comes before an action, not before.

It takes months, money and lawyer fees to get guns returned in California. Some people have their guns destroyed by the police after they refuse to return them even when people have a court order and ca doj approval for the guns to be released.


People, like you, who think guns are just magically handed back over after a couple of days are naive.
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Old 12-30-2015, 10:34 PM
 
25,059 posts, read 23,110,215 times
Reputation: 11618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigma83 View Post
That would happen AFTER you commit a crime. Something you DON'T get a chance to here....its like that movie with Will Smith where they arrest people for THINKING about committing a crime....Why am I not surprised *******s are going along with this like sheep over a cliff.
If somebody makes threatening posts on social media like shooting up a school, law enforcement CAN act on that and preemptively detain or arrest the suspect BEFORE a crime is committed already. Geez, does anyone know anything around here?
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Old 12-30-2015, 10:49 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
30,910 posts, read 13,475,609 times
Reputation: 22029
Quote:
Originally Posted by shooting4life View Post
What other civil rights should we suspend without proof and only the word of one person? Due process comes before an action, not before.
You can be arrested for any crime upon the sworn affidavit of another person, arrested and put in jail. Think about it for a minute...there is no requirement for physical evidence or an independent witness to a number of crimes including: assault, felonious threats, rape, indecent exposure, theft... etc ad nauseum. You go to jail and either sit there or post bail and during the court procedure the accuser has to prove their allegation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shooting4life View Post
It takes months, money and lawyer fees to get guns returned in California. Some people have their guns destroyed by the police after they refuse to return them even when people have a court order and ca doj approval for the guns to be released. People, like you, who think guns are just magically handed back over after a couple of days are naive.
You are misinformed guns are returned within the specified time frame, and you do not need a court order for their release unless they were taken pursuant to a search warrant. I guess you probably missed it, but there was another law passed this year that allows the gun owner to have a licensed gun dealer hold the weapons rather than the police.

And save the "people like you" stuff- you should be able to make your case without resorting to personal attacks.
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Old 12-30-2015, 11:02 PM
 
Location: Lost in Texas
9,833 posts, read 5,834,015 times
Reputation: 3404
Californians are getting the representation they have asked to have. There are 49 other states in the union. If you don't like the laws in one, go to another. No job is worth living someplace where you aren't happy with the government.
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Old 12-30-2015, 11:11 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
12,300 posts, read 7,939,585 times
Reputation: 6464
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
You can be arrested for any crime upon the sworn affidavit of another person, arrested and put in jail. Think about it for a minute...there is no requirement for physical evidence or an independent witness to a number of crimes including: assault, felonious threats, rape, indecent exposure, theft... etc ad nauseum. You go to jail and either sit there or post bail and during the court procedure the accuser has to prove their allegation.
You are misinformed guns are returned within the specified time frame, and you do not need a court order for their release unless they were taken pursuant to a search warrant. I guess you probably missed it, but there was another law passed this year that allows the gun owner to have a licensed gun dealer hold the weapons rather than the police.

And save the "people like you" stuff- you should be able to make your case without resorting to personal attacks.
Maybe you should brush up on what it is like in California when the police take your guns.
Torrance Police Settle for Illegally Destroyed Guns

Not to mention ffl's charge and arm and a leg to hold guns. Most don't have the room.


the standards for arresting someone (a felony for all crimes based on the witness of others) is much higher than this "I think someone may be a danger but have no proof" when no felony has been committed is exceptionally different.

Maybe you just approve of arresting people on whim, letting them sit in jail, ruin their lives, cost them thousands of dollars and then letting them go as part of a good criminal justice system.
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Old 12-30-2015, 11:15 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
12,300 posts, read 7,939,585 times
Reputation: 6464
Quote:
Originally Posted by freightshaker View Post
Californians are getting the representation they have asked to have. There are 49 other states in the union. If you don't like the laws in one, go to another. No job is worth living someplace where you aren't happy with the government.
So black people in the 50's and 60's should have just moved out of the south instead of fighting for their civil rights?

Every draconian gun law in California, New York and New Jersey is just a testing ground for a national push for the same laws. The battle front for you 2nd amendment rights is happen as we speak in states like California. Supporting those in the fight is in your best interests.
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Old 12-30-2015, 11:27 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
30,910 posts, read 13,475,609 times
Reputation: 22029
Quote:
Originally Posted by shooting4life View Post
Maybe you should brush up on what it is like in California when the police take your guns.
Torrance Police Settle for Illegally Destroyed Guns
Not to mention ffl's charge and arm and a leg to hold guns. Most don't have the room.
the standards for arresting someone (a felony for all crimes based on the witness of others) is much higher than this "I think someone may be a danger but have no proof" when no felony has been committed is exceptionally different.
Maybe you just approve of arresting people on whim, letting them sit in jail, ruin their lives, cost them thousands of dollars and then letting them go as part of a good criminal justice system.
No, you are wrong- you can be arrested upon the word of another, it happens all the time you have an opportunity to require the other party prove that you broke the law but that happens AFTER the arrest my friend, not before. An arrest for a felony not witnessed by a Police Officer requires that he/she has probable cause which means that the victims claim makes sense and probably happened. If it is for a misdemeanor the victim can require the police arrest the suspect upon a written affidavit referred to as a 'citizens arrest'.

And it appears that Torrance PD violated the law and got spanked and the gun owner was reimbursed. Crap happens...but that is not typical of all Police Departments in California. But instead of telling me to "brush up on what it's like in California" why don't you share with us what you suggest should happen in the following situation:

Neighbors hear screaming and loud banging noises in a house and call the Police. The Police respond and talk to the residents who admit they were fighting. The female party claims that she was not injured but that dear husband threatened to shoot her. Do the cops walk away and leave the guns there, or do they take them for safekeeping? If they take them for 72 hour safekeeping and the wife calls the cops again before the guns are released and claims her husband is still threatening her- should they release the guns to him or should they present that evidence to a judge and get a 21 day hold on the guns? Now rather than answer like a faithful Breitbart, Ammoland follower would; ask what you would like to see happen if that woman was your sister.
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Old 12-30-2015, 11:28 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
30,910 posts, read 13,475,609 times
Reputation: 22029
Quote:
Originally Posted by shooting4life View Post
Every draconian gun law in California, New York and New Jersey is just a testing ground for a national push for the same laws. The battle front for you 2nd amendment rights is happen as we speak in states like California. Supporting those in the fight is in your best interests.
You really need to read something other than "ammoland" it gets you too riled up, it's just not healthy.
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Old 12-30-2015, 11:34 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
30,910 posts, read 13,475,609 times
Reputation: 22029
Quote:
Originally Posted by freightshaker View Post
Californians are getting the representation they have asked to have. There are 49 other states in the union. If you don't like the laws in one, go to another. No job is worth living someplace where you aren't happy with the government.
And before you move, check state laws because a whole bunch of those other states have laws that allow guns to be taken out of homes where a domestic violence has occurred like Oklahoma, Montana, Arizona, etc.
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Old 12-30-2015, 11:45 PM
 
Location: Lost in Texas
9,833 posts, read 5,834,015 times
Reputation: 3404
Quote:
Originally Posted by shooting4life View Post
So black people in the 50's and 60's should have just moved out of the south instead of fighting for their civil rights?

Every draconian gun law in California, New York and New Jersey is just a testing ground for a national push for the same laws. The battle front for you 2nd amendment rights is happen as we speak in states like California. Supporting those in the fight is in your best interests.
In California, you are fighting a losing battle. You have liberal legislators, liberal judges and liberal constituents. Most of which would like to see the 2nd amendment repealed. As long as liberalism is alive and well, one law after another will be implemented. As quickly as you can get one declared unconstitutional, another will take its place.
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