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Old 01-06-2016, 01:11 PM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,792 posts, read 13,903,978 times
Reputation: 5661

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigma83 View Post
Oregon ranching case sparks anti-government sentiment

1. Should have never stolen the families land
2. Should have never prosecuted them under an "anti terrorism law" when there was NO TERRORISM
3. People should fight back. Armed if need be. Seems to be only thing jackboot thugs understand. Worked in 2014 will work again. Its outrageous these men have ALREADY served time AND been released and now being FORCED to become slaves to the system again.
This lays out the issue:

In Oregon, Myth Mixes With Anger

I also find it funny that Ammon Bundy, the lead spokesman for the armed band, is a hypocrite when he rails against the federal government This is a guy whose business borrowed $530,000 through a Small Business Administration loan guarantee program -- the subsidy cost taxpayers $22,419. So, he's against big government until the big government helps him out.

The guy is a moocher who wants to graze his cows, without paying the tiny fee, on land owned by us taxpayers.
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Old 01-06-2016, 01:13 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
3,040 posts, read 4,985,164 times
Reputation: 3422
Quote:
Originally Posted by mohawkx View Post
Look, thanks for the impressive stats. But bottom line, the American people, represented by our government, are not going to turn over our lands to a bunch of special interests. Be it ranchers, farmers or anybody else. We will continue to protect if from exploitation for our children, our grandchildren and our children's children and the wildlife who desperately need it for their survival. Ranchers and loggers have historically proven that they are not the best caretakers of the land as profit and exploitation trump wildlife and preservation due to the bottom line.
Now give me examples of the good ranchers who don't kill all wolves on sight. Who don't slaughter wild herds to preserve grazing land for their livestock who care about ground nesting birds, who don't poison a prairie dog colonies to keep their livestock from breaking legs.
The area we are talking about is mostly a marshland used by migratory birds for feed and rest. It is critical to their survival. Your ranchers would destroy that all in the name of profit.

Oh, and the reason there is so much more land locked up west of the Mississippi than east is we know better now. Not only did we cut down all the forests, kill all the wildlife but forcably removed all the prior inhabitants of the lands east of the Mississippi.
We like to think were more enlightened today.
I guess you are not familiar with Oregon's environmental laws in regards to ranchers, loggers and anyone else that works with land and timber. Ranchers are not permitted to shoot wolves, elk or any other animal that is deemed a nuisance, they must contact the Oregon State Fish and Wildlife office before any action is taken, the fines for not doing this is pretty steep.

Yes, the area is question is just a small part of the federal lands, but that is beside the point, the feds own more than just the Malheur NWR. A number of years ago they went and confiscated private land that bordered the refuge in order to increase the size. This really upset the ranchers who property was taken and brought all this into the forefront, they sued the federal government and only then were they paid for their lands.

So what you are saying is we who live in these western states are denied any compensation because of what the people did in the east. When I say compensation I'm talking about taxable property denied to the counties by the federal government. The county I live in, the federal government owns 47% of the county, the county get no revenue from this land. It's these conditions that really put a hurt on county governments throughout Oregon because most counties operate through property taxes assessments.
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Old 01-06-2016, 01:24 PM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,792 posts, read 13,903,978 times
Reputation: 5661
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terryj View Post
I guess you are not familiar with Oregon's environmental laws in regards to ranchers, loggers and anyone else that works with land and timber. Ranchers are not permitted to shoot wolves, elk or any other animal that is deemed a nuisance, they must contact the Oregon State Fish and Wildlife office before any action is taken, the fines for not doing this is pretty steep.

Yes, the area is question is just a small part of the federal lands, but that is beside the point, the feds own more than just the Malheur NWR. A number of years ago they went and confiscated private land that bordered the refuge in order to increase the size. This really upset the ranchers who property was taken and brought all this into the forefront, they sued the federal government and only then were they paid for their lands.

So what you are saying is we who live in these western states are denied any compensation because of what the people did in the east. When I say compensation I'm talking about taxable property denied to the counties by the federal government. The county I live in, the federal government owns 47% of the county, the county get no revenue from this land. It's these conditions that really put a hurt on county governments throughout Oregon because most counties operate through property taxes assessments.
The land was not "confiscated" according to this article. It was also exploited by "large ranching operations from California had monopolized hundreds of thousands of acres of rangeland. Irrigation developers controlled water, cattle barons controlled the grass, and settlers were essentially locked out. Tensions were high."
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Old 01-06-2016, 02:24 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,866 posts, read 46,445,085 times
Reputation: 18520
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
This lays out the issue:

In Oregon, Myth Mixes With Anger

I also find it funny that Ammon Bundy, the lead spokesman for the armed band, is a hypocrite when he rails against the federal government This is a guy whose business borrowed $530,000 through a Small Business Administration loan guarantee program -- the subsidy cost taxpayers $22,419. So, he's against big government until the big government helps him out.

The guy is a moocher who wants to graze his cows, without paying the tiny fee, on land owned by us taxpayers.

If it concerned you this much, why didn't you go make a stand with the BLM guys, taking the guys cows?
Bullies soon become cowards when confronted with their own mortality. You're no different.
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Old 01-06-2016, 02:34 PM
 
Location: Arizona
13,778 posts, read 9,629,534 times
Reputation: 7485
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Who don't spill millions of gallons of toxic waste into our rivers?

Animas River fouled by 1 million gallons of contaminated mine water - The Denver Post
And that justifies exactly......what?
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Old 01-06-2016, 02:36 PM
 
79,907 posts, read 43,992,125 times
Reputation: 17189
Quote:
Originally Posted by mohawkx View Post
And that justifies exactly......what?
Justify? I wasn't trying to justify anything, just showing that "the protector" is often times worse than those who we are suppose to be protected from.
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Old 01-06-2016, 02:50 PM
 
7,577 posts, read 5,296,473 times
Reputation: 9441
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
"Bullies soon become cowards when confronted with their own mortality."
I wonder if I can get that emblazoned on a John Wayne velvet painting to hang over the fireplace...

It would also be such a great line if it where Sam Elliot saying it, too bad it isn't.
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Old 01-06-2016, 03:06 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,866 posts, read 46,445,085 times
Reputation: 18520
Quote:
Originally Posted by mohawkx View Post
And that justifies exactly......what?
No accountability, when government does it. BP oil spill government inspectors for a 1000, Alex.
Government has power, the people don't.
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Old 01-06-2016, 03:07 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,866 posts, read 46,445,085 times
Reputation: 18520
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWiseWino View Post
I wonder if I can get that emblazoned on a John Wayne velvet painting to hang over the fireplace...

It would also be such a great line if it where Sam Elliot saying it, too bad it isn't.

I can give you a signed copy. You are free to use it anytime. I won't copyright it.
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Old 01-06-2016, 05:17 PM
 
Location: United States
12,390 posts, read 7,063,888 times
Reputation: 6134
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
This lays out the issue:

In Oregon, Myth Mixes With Anger

I also find it funny that Ammon Bundy, the lead spokesman for the armed band, is a hypocrite when he rails against the federal government This is a guy whose business borrowed $530,000 through a Small Business Administration loan guarantee program -- the subsidy cost taxpayers $22,419. So, he's against big government until the big government helps him out.

The guy is a moocher who wants to graze his cows, without paying the tiny fee, on land owned by us taxpayers.
The Bundy's had no problem with paying the grazing fees (and in fact paid grazing fees for many years), they choose not to renew their lease with the government because of all the regulations that were being put on the ranchers. These regulations put 49 of the 50 ranchers out of business in Clark County.

I don't see how someone is a hypocrite because they don't like the government owning 84% of the land in Nevada, then using a government loan. That you be like expecting you to give up all of your Constitutional rights, just because you don't like the second amendment.

Last edited by stburr91; 01-06-2016 at 05:38 PM..
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