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Old 01-09-2016, 07:14 PM
 
497 posts, read 301,262 times
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Rival groups of gun toting whack jobs...... I am sure this is going to end well.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrose View Post
The militia has grown. Now there is another militia there to protect the first militia and "secure the perimeter".

Oregon standoff: Idaho group arrives to 'secure perimeter, prevent Waco-style situation' | OregonLive.com
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Old 01-09-2016, 07:18 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
66,441 posts, read 33,753,226 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OscarTheGrouch View Post
Rival groups of gun toting whack jobs...... I am sure this is going to end well.

The high ground is covered!
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Old 01-09-2016, 07:25 PM
 
7,249 posts, read 5,580,781 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtl1 View Post
Government policies make people dependent. It's not wrong to want to be independent.
Do explain how government is making these ranchers dependent.

Land is insanely cheap and readily available out in places like eastern Oregon (it's so cheap I've considered buying some just to say I have some). Of course, if they bought their own land, they wouldn't be able to stick the taxpayers with 80+% of the cost of keeping their cattle fed and watered.
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Old 01-09-2016, 07:29 PM
 
Location: a nation with hope
13,153 posts, read 17,412,211 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
Do explain how government is making these ranchers dependent.

Land is insanely cheap and readily available out in places like eastern Oregon (it's so cheap I've considered buying some just to say I have some). Of course, if they bought their own land, they wouldn't be able to stick the taxpayers with 80+% of the cost of keeping their cattle fed and watered.
You think that if they offered to buy the land, the Feds would say, "sure" ?

Federal gov't has been taking over lands because it wants the control for a variety of reasons and I'm pretty sure it's because the Feds are looking after the public interest as they interpret it.
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Old 01-09-2016, 07:41 PM
 
7,249 posts, read 5,580,781 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southward bound View Post
You think that if they offered to buy the land, the Feds would say, "sure" ?

Federal gov't has been taking over lands because it wants the control for a variety of reasons and I'm pretty sure it's because the Feds are looking after the public interest as they interpret it.
That particular land, probably not.

That doesn't change the fact that there's plenty of private land they could buy if they chose to do so. But why buy when you can lease grazing rights from the government and get an 85% subsidy on the cost of running your business?

Their business is only economically viable if they buy enough land for their house and then lease the rest at a huge discount with the difference made up by taxpayers.
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Old 01-09-2016, 08:20 PM
 
Location: Long Island
32,952 posts, read 13,911,625 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OscarTheGrouch View Post
Rival groups of gun toting whack jobs...... I am sure this is going to end well.
This could very well end up as #1 for the 2016 Darwin Awards.
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Old 01-09-2016, 08:38 PM
 
Location: Long Island
32,952 posts, read 13,911,625 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southward bound View Post
You think that if they offered to buy the land, the Feds would say, "sure" ?

Federal gov't has been taking over lands because it wants the control for a variety of reasons and I'm pretty sure it's because the Feds are looking after the public interest as they interpret it.
What lands did the government take over in Oregon from white ranchers and if you want to be fair why not return the lands to the Indians since they are the rightful owners.


This federal takeover of private lands is just rural legend.
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Old 01-09-2016, 08:42 PM
 
Location: a nation with hope
13,153 posts, read 17,412,211 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post

This federal takeover of private lands is just rural legend.

Really? Do you have a link for that?
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Old 01-09-2016, 08:48 PM
 
Location: United States
10,949 posts, read 5,064,026 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
That particular land, probably not.

That doesn't change the fact that there's plenty of private land they could buy if they chose to do so. But why buy when you can lease grazing rights from the government and get an 85% subsidy on the cost of running your business?

Their business is only economically viable if they buy enough land for their house and then lease the rest at a huge discount with the difference made up by taxpayers.
What is your source for this 85% subsidy?

How is someone paying grazing fees a subsidy? Also, these ranchers own many acres of land, not just enough to put a house on.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
What lands did the government take over in Oregon from white ranchers and if you want to be fair why not return the lands to the Indians since they are the rightful owners.


This federal takeover of private lands is just rural legend.
The government owning a significant percentage of the land in the western states is not a rural legend, it's a fact.
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Old 01-09-2016, 09:24 PM
 
7,249 posts, read 5,580,781 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stburr91 View Post
What is your source for this 85% subsidy?
https://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RS21232.pdf

The number varies a bit from year to year, but 85% is a pretty solid number. It was 86.8% in 2004. In 2014, ranchers paid a whopping 12.9% of the cost.

Ranchers are paying ~$2/month for grazing on federal lands, as opposed to roughly 10x that amount to graze on private property.
Quote:
How is someone paying grazing fees a subsidy?
Because they're not paying anywhere near the actual cost.

Let's change the situation to someone that rural right wingers hate... Say you have a poor black single mom living in the inner city. Rent on her apartment is $1000/month. She pays $150 and the taxpayers are on the hook for the other $850. Would you say she's not getting a subsidy because she pays a non-zero amount in rent?


Quote:
Also, these ranchers own many acres of land, not just enough to put a house on.
They own relatively little - just whatever they need to have full control over. If they bought enough to actually run their operations, they'd go out of business rather quickly.
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