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Accidents happen all the time. People trip over stairs and kill themselves far more often than accidentally being shot to death. Shall we ban stairs?
good point.
all firearms do, is take away the liberals ability to dictate their agenda upon the whole country. until firearms are legislated to death and confiscated, they cannot do what they want.
I am interested in what other statistics might point toward how gun control measures have had an impact on gun violence; robberies with guns, shoot-outs with guns, assaults with guns...
Maybe trends, numbers or rates that can be correlated with gun control measures that have limited the access of certain guns, like machine guns, and where perhaps wait times, certain restrictions and scrutiny can be correlated with gun violence either going up or down.
Possible?
Something like tracking what impact car safety measures have had on car-related injuries, not just car-related homicides...
Gun violence? What the hell is gun violence? Violence is violence regardless it's done with a gun, knife, club or just bare hands. Is one violence more acceptable than others?
"Gun violence" is an invented term to mask the real issue - violence. The real intention of that is to ban firearm ownership because those who talk about gun violence don't give a crap about the real problem - violence.
I am interested in what other statistics might point toward how gun control measures have had an impact on gun violence; robberies with guns, shoot-outs with guns, assaults with guns...
Maybe trends, numbers or rates that can be correlated with gun control measures that have limited the access of certain guns, like machine guns, and where perhaps wait times, certain restrictions and scrutiny can be correlated with gun violence either going up or down.
Possible?
Something like tracking what impact car safety measures have had on car-related injuries, not just car-related homicides...
It tends to be a tall order because most people on either side of the conversation will cherry pick stats to make their side look better. Among the most popular is taking gun homicides and violence only, then comparing the USA to a list of carefully hand-picked countries that have lower gun violence rates that we do. In general, the anti-gun folks seem to be the biggest offenders at this sort of thing, though both sides tend to be dishonest in their "facts."
One consideration: 42% of all privately owned guns and firearms in the entire world are owned by citizens of the United States. So naturally, we should expect the USA to have the highest murder rates and violent crime rates in the world by a giant margin, right? If there is any correlation whatsoever between gun ownership and violent crime -- especially when you have that many guns than any other nation on earth -- it should be completely inevitable. We've got WAAAY more guns than anyone! It's not even close! So even if there is only a slight correlation between gun ownership and violent crime, such correlation should have turned the United States of America a nation of people killing each other non-stop. Streets running red with blood. That sort of thing.
Instead, we have a bit higher murder and violent crime rates than Western Europe, but a bit lower rates than most of Eastern Europe and Russia. And we have vastly lower rates than every Western Hemisphere nation but Canada and Chile. Even Greenland beats us by miles.
That leads me to believe that anti-gun folks are presupposing a correlation that is either completely nonexistent or so close to non-existent that it's statistically irrelevant.
It tends to be a tall order because most people on either side of the conversation will cherry pick stats to make their side look better. Among the most popular is taking gun homicides and violence only, then comparing the USA to a list of carefully hand-picked countries that have lower gun violence rates that we do. In general, the anti-gun folks seem to be the biggest offenders at this sort of thing, though both sides tend to be dishonest in their "facts."
One consideration: 42% of all privately owned guns and firearms in the entire world are owned by citizens of the United States. So naturally, we should expect the USA to have the highest murder rates and violent crime rates in the world by a giant margin, right? If there is any correlation whatsoever between gun ownership and violent crime -- especially when you have that many guns than any other nation on earth -- it should be completely inevitable. We've got WAAAY more guns than anyone! It's not even close! So even if there is only a slight correlation between gun ownership and violent crime, such correlation should have turned the United States of America a nation of people killing each other non-stop. Streets running red with blood. That sort of thing.
Instead, we have a bit higher murder and violent crime rates than Western Europe, but a bit lower rates than most of Eastern Europe and Russia. And we have vastly lower rates than every Western Hemisphere nation but Canada and Chile. Even Greenland beats us by miles.
That leads me to believe that anti-gun folks are presupposing a correlation that is either completely nonexistent or so close to non-existent that it's statistically irrelevant.
I can't rep you anymore.
Furthermore, if we take away those murders committed by a particular protected group, our murder rate would actually be lower than or on par with all Western Europe countries.
It tends to be a tall order because most people on either side of the conversation will cherry pick stats to make their side look better. Among the most popular is taking gun homicides and violence only, then comparing the USA to a list of carefully hand-picked countries that have lower gun violence rates that we do. In general, the anti-gun folks seem to be the biggest offenders at this sort of thing, though both sides tend to be dishonest in their "facts."
One consideration: 42% of all privately owned guns and firearms in the entire world are owned by citizens of the United States. So naturally, we should expect the USA to have the highest murder rates and violent crime rates in the world by a giant margin, right? If there is any correlation whatsoever between gun ownership and violent crime -- especially when you have that many guns than any other nation on earth -- it should be completely inevitable. We've got WAAAY more guns than anyone! It's not even close! So even if there is only a slight correlation between gun ownership and violent crime, such correlation should have turned the United States of America a nation of people killing each other non-stop. Streets running red with blood. That sort of thing.
Instead, we have a bit higher murder and violent crime rates than Western Europe, but a bit lower rates than most of Eastern Europe and Russia. And we have vastly lower rates than every Western Hemisphere nation but Canada and Chile. Even Greenland beats us by miles.
That leads me to believe that anti-gun folks are presupposing a correlation that is either completely nonexistent or so close to non-existent that it's statistically irrelevant.
I immediately get a little put off with the use of "anti-gun" rhetoric, because it isn't that most gun-control advocates are against guns. There are even members of the NRA who are pro-gun-control, and they are not "anti-gun." Those sorts of descriptors make the rest of your argument or anyone else who couches their position like that a little harder to consider outside a negative light, but you make some good points I won't just dismiss even when your words reveal the bias you most obviously have when it comes to this subject.
A little different for folks like me that are okay with guns but okay with gun control as well...
Maybe you should offer up a little more than a quick swipe before doing exactly the same of yourself.
I have probably seen, READ and most importantly OBJECTIVELY considered more in the way of stats, numbers, facts, fiction, opinion, reason and all in between just here in these threads let alone outside of them than most people, and I dare anyone to suggest the matter closed except those who continue making fools of themselves by simply pointing to the 2A.
" and most importantly OBJECTIVELY considered"
Sorry, I have read many of your post and one thing I have come to know about you, and "OBJECTIVELY considered" isn't even in the ball park.
Being you have so "expertly" read the stats, WHAT are the stats for rifles and blunt objects?
It shouldn't be too hard for you since the link is in the OP opening post.
It tends to be a tall order because most people on either side of the conversation will cherry pick stats to make their side look better. Among the most popular is taking gun homicides and violence only, then comparing the USA to a list of carefully hand-picked countries that have lower gun violence rates that we do. In general, the anti-gun folks seem to be the biggest offenders at this sort of thing, though both sides tend to be dishonest in their "facts."
One consideration: 42% of all privately owned guns and firearms in the entire world are owned by citizens of the United States. So naturally, we should expect the USA to have the highest murder rates and violent crime rates in the world by a giant margin, right? If there is any correlation whatsoever between gun ownership and violent crime -- especially when you have that many guns than any other nation on earth -- it should be completely inevitable. We've got WAAAY more guns than anyone! It's not even close! So even if there is only a slight correlation between gun ownership and violent crime, such correlation should have turned the United States of America a nation of people killing each other non-stop. Streets running red with blood. That sort of thing.
Instead, we have a bit higher murder and violent crime rates than Western Europe, but a bit lower rates than most of Eastern Europe and Russia. And we have vastly lower rates than every Western Hemisphere nation but Canada and Chile. Even Greenland beats us by miles.
That leads me to believe that anti-gun folks are presupposing a correlation that is either completely nonexistent or so close to non-existent that it's statistically irrelevant.
If we forget the different ploys and methods of suggesting fair analysis from either side and simply stick to what is most relevant here, I know for me it is not a question of "cherry picking" anything. I am inclined, however, to compare the U.S. to other modern day civilized countries when it comes to the measure of gun violence (not just homicides) per capita, plain and simple. Same as we should do when it comes to comparing our economy or level of wealth, resources, etc. Why compare to countries that none of us hold as any sort of worthy standard?
It begins to get a lot more simple, when you simply take out what is less appropriate to include, like suicides and/or anomalies like Japan, and simply compare like numbers, per capita, to only those countries we might consider better representatives of open, modern-day advanced societies, most like us.
I think when we start doing that, we better see how the U.S. stands out when it comes to the "good, bad and ugly." I don't think that is "cherry picking" any more than it makes sense of professional athletes or sports teams to compare themselves to amateurs.
Furthermore, if we take away those murders committed by a particular protected group, our murder rate would actually be lower than or on par with all Western Europe countries.
I believe that the worst culprit by far is the War on Drugs. Most of the violent crime -- whether it's black on black, white on white, Hispanic or any other possible combination of those -- seems to stem directly from gangs and mafias fighting to protect their drug-peddling territory. It was the source of the war between the Crips and the Bloods. It's a massive contributor to Latin gang violence. The old mafias are in on it as well. And the spillover of the worst of it across our southern border and ports is pretty significant.
Sorry, I have read many of your post and one thing I have come to know about you, and "OBJECTIVELY considered" isn't even in the ball park.
Being you have so "expertly" read the stats, WHAT are the stats for rifles and blunt objects?
It shouldn't be too hard for you since the link is in the OP opening post.
I know it is a lot easier to make accusations than justify them. The number of those so inclined and the incredible count of that sort of thing in these threads makes that obvious, but as one who really does reflect as to what I think or do that may not be fair or reasonable, can you please provide a very specific example of my words (not twisted by someone else) that suggests I am not being objective?
Do us all a favor and at least make that attempt, because it should be easy for someone who has read many of my posts. Just one, please...
I know it is a lot easier to make accusations than justify them. The number of those so inclined and the incredible count of that sort of thing in these threads makes that obvious, but as one who really does reflect as to what I think or do that may not be fair or reasonable, can you please provide a very specific example of my words (not twisted by someone else) that suggests I am not being objective?
Do us all a favor and at least make that attempt, because it should be easy for someone who has read many of my posts. Just one, please...
You may call what you say "objective" but the way you formulate your questions and construct your arguments make your intentions clear.
As someone else said, you'd garner much more respect, as well as inject a measure of honesty into the discussion, if you'd just come out and say your intent/belief is to first ban private ownership of firearms in the US and then enact confiscation (either uncompensated or compensated).
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The words we choose...
