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Correct. It immediately brought Trump to my mind as well.
As one of my previous posts stated there definitely can be left wing authoritarian governments (i.e. Mao or pol pot) but it is much more common among right wing fear politics.
Mr. Altmeyer makes this distinction as well:
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In North America people who submit to the established authorities to extraordinary degrees often turn out to be political conservatives, 2 so you can call them “right-wingers” both in my new-fangled psychological sense and in the usual political sense as well. But someone who lived in a country long ruled by Communists and who ardently supported the Communist Party would also be one of my psychological right-wing authoritarians even though we would also say he was a political left-winger.
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So a right-wing authoritarian follower doesn’t necessarily have conservative political views. Instead he’s someone who readily submits to the established authorities in society, attacks others in their name, and is highly conventional. It’s an aspect of his personality, not a description of his politics. Right- wing authoritarianism is a personality trait, like being characteristically bashful or happy or grumpy or dopey.
Is it just me, or the right-wingers that are posting in this thread have very reductionist and simplistic tones in their posts? In other words, writing and thinking on an elementary school level?
Is it just me, or the right-wingers that are posting in this thread have very reductionist and simplistic tones in their posts? In other words, writing and thinking on an elementary school level?
From my perspective, I think Authoritarian personality type folks tend to use compartmentalized thinking or an all-or-nothing thinking style. This sometimes seems, as you've noted, to be more 'reductionist & simplistic.'
Well, you're wrong and I literally just linked articles and books discussing decades of research that show that. But I'm sure you're a poli sci expert, right?
Let me ask you a question. Do you believe that in the U.S. political system the Democratic Party is liberal and the Republican Party is conservative? Can you then define what those terms mean in relation to U.S. politics?
To characterize the political system, one must define many things. You must define liberal, conservative, and you must define the democratic party and the republican party. i'd like to warn you that it's highly difficult to characterize the two political parties, as they say one thing and do another. their policies are often contradictory and misleading. they try to satisfy mutually exclusive demands for the sake of getting votes.
one could say that the two parties are in fact not different, but the same system of elite control. this means that they are authoritarian.
Well, you're wrong and I literally just linked articles and books discussing decades of research that show that. But I'm sure you're a poli sci expert, right?
What type of policies do you want to discuss? Do you want to talk about healthcare policies and which are more authoritarian?
Want to talk about tax policy?
I'd be more than happy for us to discuss liberal vs conservative policies and delve into which are more authoritarian.
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Originally Posted by SupBro
Let me ask you a question. Do you believe that in the U.S. political system the Democratic Party is liberal and the Republican Party is conservative? Can you then define what those terms mean in relation to U.S. politics?
Neither party demonstrates pure or even a majority of liberal or conservative policies. They do a mashup of ideologies that mostly server their own interests and that of big government; however, this has definitely been a shift to more liberal policies.
There is no such thing as a "free democracy". There is only visible control over "freedom" and (barely) invisible passive control, apparently combined with an incredibly complicated legal and for-profit penal system that relies on mass incarceration for order.
Anyone who thinks that the opinions and whims of a population under democracy are not tightly controlled is more than a little bit dense. In fact, chaotic opinion and a continuous "revolutionary spirit", in the guise of "freedom" of thought and opinion, is one of the primary methods of keeping any populace from organizing in their best interests and to create ever more law enforcement power from "not the people".
Any system that observably serves to continuously increase the legal clamp on society, while touting "freedom", should immediately raise red flags amongst the commoners. However, the simple mechanism to prevent this is to merely tell the masses that they are "free". Pretty neat, aye? Who knew that four letters could have such widespread power of hypnosis.
Of course, many if not most people know that something is wrong, but their befuddled response is always to demand more of what is causing the social and thus governmental malfunction. More "freedom" from any social anchor. More chaos. More laws to combat it. It's the ultimate Chinese finger trap. Our "freedom" will eventually have us completely and fundamentally transformed as persons. That's a type of freedom that history has not seen up until this point.
Oh, and the most egregious authoritarians in the past century, marked by populaces who have been essentially under mass imprisonment in their own nations, have all been far leftists. Historically speaking, those worried about authoritarians should clearly be much more worried over the left. Any propaganda over the potential authoritarianism of the Right should be viewed as such. Instead of being worried about legitimate authoritarianism, what the leftists who come up with these narratives are worried about is Right wing governments who clamp down on their destructive politics. It's an expression of the fear that they will one day lose, and not actual angst over "authoritarianism". To wit, most leftists would become authoritarians in the vein of most in history if it meant getting rid of the Right.
well said. i add that one should look closer at the right-wing dictatorships of the 20th century. many of these dictatorships started with high popularity by embracing collective projects to appeal to the population. they built roads, bridges, improved their economy, and created a nationalistic atmosphere. this types of collectivism isn't entirely different from the one in left-wing dictatorships. in other words, it is collectivism that tends to create disasters of coercion and outright criminal act of a criminal state in the name of something nice. the population, brainwashed and confused if not radicalized, embrace these policies until it absolutely becomes unbearable for the majority.
the liberal stance today is that individualism itself violates the collective good. so it's entirely inaccurate to describe liberalism as in "you can live your life as long as you don't violate others' rights." but how it violates others' rights is completely subjective, and the interpretation is a source of left-wing authoritarianism.
What type of policies do you want to discuss? Do you want to talk about healthcare policies and which are more authoritarian?
Want to talk about tax policy?
I'd be more than happy for us to discuss liberal vs conservative policies and delve into which are more authoritarian.
Neither party demonstrates pure or even a majority of liberal or conservative policies. They do a mashup of ideologies that mostly server their own interests and that of big government; however, this has definitely been a shift to more liberal policies.
exactly. i think the real distinction here isn't left versus right. it is people who think along the lines of ideology and fantasies, compared to people who face reality. i find the left-wingers on this board very much like the former. they seem to cite dictionary definitions in a debate, totally disconnected with reality. the real world is a complex, contradictory, and messy one. it's the total opposite of purist ideological theories and definitions.
to differentiate authoritarianism along partisan lines is perhaps one of the biggest misconceptions of politics.
those who support authoritarianism are the ones who support it.
those who oppose it are the ones who oppose it.
they exist in every party, every organization, every city, you name it. they are everywhere.
to say that this party is and that party isn't is useless political rhetoric, junk discourse.
Interesting distinction, but I have a slightly different take.
Here it is...
You have individualists and collectivists. Individualists believe in individual rights/liberty - that it's never okay to violate any person's rights, even if it would supposedly benefit society as a whole. Collectivists believe that it's okay to sacrifice the rights of certain people if it's for the greater good, or the general welfare.
So looking at it that way, righties want to "make the nation great" and have a very patriotic type of collectivist attitude...it may be ok to violate the rights of Muslims, or X group because society as a whole will be better off.
Lefties think it may be ok to violate the rights of the "privileged" classes or other groups they demonize to help society as a whole. Steal from the rich and give to the poor...the greatest good for the greatest number...that type of thing.
Both are examples of collectivism, and both want a central authority called the state to enforce their ideas and make society what they think it should be. Individualists want to leave people alone and allow whatever comes naturally from that, mostly because they don't believe they have the right to control others by force.
You are correct in that both democrats and republicans have individualist and collectivist agendas.
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