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Old 01-21-2016, 06:38 AM
 
Location: Barrington
63,919 posts, read 46,707,495 times
Reputation: 20674

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Troyfan View Post
You should do what the government wants you to do: marry, buy a house, open and IRA. Then you'd pay less tax. You can't complain about paying more taxes when you don't do what the government wants.
A family of 4 with household income in the exact middle of the middle class income spectrum pays an average effective federal tax rate of 5.3%.

Many of the 2016 candidates are proposing major revisions to the tax code. Of course a President has no authority to change the tax code. It will require an act of Congress to do so.

Best I can tell, all the pitches continue to favor families with children and preservation of the mortgage interest tax deduction. All result in substantially less revenue for the federal government which means less money to redistribute to the states. This means states will have to cut services and increase state taxes and fees. This means municipalities will need to raise property taxes to maintain schools and municipal services.

At the end of the day the overall tax burden could remain the same or incrementally increase.

I may be the only licensed broker in the US that does not favor the mortgage interest tax deduction.

I am not too keen on tax breaks for children either as it encourages irresponsible procreation.
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Old 01-21-2016, 06:40 AM
 
1,914 posts, read 2,241,772 times
Reputation: 14573
Quote:
Originally Posted by KonaldDuth View Post
All the presidential candidates ever pander to is Middle-Class families. Supposedly they're the ones who deserve tax breaks.


Well, I'm single, unmarried, no kids, and rent an apartment. Where's my tax break? Why can't I deduct my rent from my income? When are Middle-Class families going to pay back the subsidies I've been giving them through the Earned Income Tax Credit?
Are you under the impression that homeowners can deduct the entire amount of their mortgage from their taxes? They can only deduct the interest. Whoever holds the mortgage on the building you live in gets to deduct the interest. You have the same opportunity as everyone else to have a mortgage and deduct the interest.


And what about homeowners with no mortgage? Should they be able to deduct some random amount just because?
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Old 01-21-2016, 06:40 AM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
45,332 posts, read 60,500,026 times
Reputation: 60912
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick Enough View Post
I don't disagree with your premise but, stories like this are useless, "Goodbye Middle Class: 51 Percent Of All American Workers Make Less Than 30,000 Dollars A Year Washington's Blog"

$30,00 in NYC is not much but, in say Alabama and you are doing OK.

The COL disparity across the country is enormous.

This is what a lot of people from high COL areas don't understand (there's a corollary to that in reverse). A $15-$20/hour wage is top rate for many trades throughout the US.


The corollary is that people with high pay in a low COL area look at pay for comparable jobs in high COL places and don't realize that they'd actually be worse off there.
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Old 01-21-2016, 06:41 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,971 posts, read 44,780,079 times
Reputation: 13681
Quote:
Originally Posted by triple8s View Post
How do you define "middle class"?


Based on studies, the middle class is shrinking and it's not because they are stepping up a level, but slowly declining into poverty or just above the poverty level.


Here are some numbers for you.


Goodbye Middle Class: 51 Percent Of All American Workers Make Less Than 30,000 Dollars A Year Washington's Blog
Actually, THIS might have a lot to do with it:

For every 1 baby born to self-supporting parents, 3 babies are born to those dependent on public assistance.

Women receiving public assistance, as a group, have a birth rate 3 times higher than women who don't receive public assistance. That, in itself has led to the additional problem of nearly half of all U.S. births being paid for by Medicaid. 70% of those kids will never rise out of poverty, even as adults.

http://www.city-data.com/forum/32045595-post217.html

Medicaid Pays For Nearly Half of All Births in the United States | publichealth.gwu.edu

Only 30% of those born poor ever make it out of poverty

This is what is increasing the percentage of those who make less than $30,000 a year. An exponential amount of population growth is occurring at the bottom.

BTW, Medicaid and Public Health Departments cover birth control for the poor so there's NO excuse for these statistics.
Quote:
The middle class has been the only "class" that has been paying their "fair" share in taxes.
Based on what?

Look at the total local, state, and federal combined effective tax rates, by income group...

Bottom 20%: 13%
Middle 20%: 25%
Top 1%: 43%

http://static6.businessinsider.com/i...stribution.png

Data sources for chart: Tax Policy Center and Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy

Article in which chart appears: No, The Rich Do Not Pay 'All The Taxes' - Business Insider

How is paying a 25% tax rate paying one's "fair share," but paying a 43% tax rate isn't?

Explain the math behind your belief.
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Old 01-21-2016, 06:41 AM
 
Location: Barrington
63,919 posts, read 46,707,495 times
Reputation: 20674
Quote:
Originally Posted by grampaTom View Post
I have to believe you will NOT be voting for any candidate who is part of the 'Washington establishment' then. You and millions of people like you need to make your voices heard in the elections. The current group of politicians running congress (and in the White House) are NOT your friends.
Those 2016 candidates pitching a rewrite of the tax code continue to include the sacred cows, child tax credit and mortgage interest rate deduction.

Singles, without children who rent will continue to pay a higher effective tax rate.
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Old 01-21-2016, 06:46 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,971 posts, read 44,780,079 times
Reputation: 13681
Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
Those 2016 candidates pitching a rewrite of the tax code continue to include the sacred cows, child tax credit and mortgage interest rate deduction.

Singles, without children who rent will continue to pay a higher effective tax rate.
Yep. I have two adult children. No dependents. No mortgage. I don't get any of those tax breaks.
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Old 01-21-2016, 06:48 AM
 
Location: USA
805 posts, read 1,084,379 times
Reputation: 1433
I have two kids and will get a nice break this year. Personal anecdote aside, it is smart policy for the government to encourage marriage and children. Children are our future workforce, and research continually shows that the best thing for a child is to be raised in a traditional two-parent home (mother and father). When that child grows older, he is a member of the workforce and pays Social Security taxes, Medicare taxes, and becomes a productive member of society. Government encourages many things via taxation (not all I agree with, mind you), but this is one area where families with children get a good break, and deservedly so. If we become top-heavy like Germany or other Western European countries, we get a lot of retirees but not enough workers to replace/sustain them and have to rely on immigration. Not the path I want to go down.
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Old 01-21-2016, 07:00 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,971 posts, read 44,780,079 times
Reputation: 13681
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyyfanatic85 View Post
I have two kids and will get a nice break this year. Personal anecdote aside, it is smart policy for the government to encourage marriage and children. Children are our future workforce, and research continually shows that the best thing for a child is to be raised in a traditional two-parent home (mother and father). When that child grows older, he is a member of the workforce and pays Social Security taxes, Medicare taxes, and becomes a productive member of society. Government encourages many things via taxation (not all I agree with, mind you), but this is one area where families with children get a good break, and deservedly so. If we become top-heavy like Germany or other Western European countries, we get a lot of retirees but not enough workers to replace/sustain them and have to rely on immigration. Not the path I want to go down.
You're missing the point of the consequences of all the tax credits and public assistance for irresponsible breeders. Go back and read my post.

http://www.city-data.com/forum/42715798-post14.html

Do you seriously think the perpetual poverty and therefore already receiving public assistance class is going to pay enough taxes to support SS and Medicare? Explain the math on how that will work.
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Old 01-21-2016, 07:01 AM
 
Location: NJ
23,534 posts, read 17,208,400 times
Reputation: 17561
Quote:
Originally Posted by KonaldDuth View Post
All the presidential candidates ever pander to is Middle-Class families. Supposedly they're the ones who deserve tax breaks.


Well, I'm single, unmarried, no kids, and rent an apartment. Where's my tax break? Why can't I deduct my rent from my income? When are Middle-Class families going to pay back the subsidies I've been giving them through the Earned Income Tax Credit?
You deserve whatever tax break is written into the tax code that has been guarded by democrat charklie rangel for decades.


'Fair' is a word used by charlatans and fools.


The tax code is a leagl issue, using emotonal words to fight legal language is just a ploy to gain sympathy and nothing else.


Society rewards those who create stability. Society need stability. Theoretically and practically, partnerships are favored over singles. figure signles don't need help as they don't have to spend their life fortune on education, medical care, etc for potential children. you spend your money on yourself.


Society sees marriage as necessary to social stability. A concept that has been lost and you can see the results.
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Old 01-21-2016, 07:07 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,479 posts, read 59,756,720 times
Reputation: 24863
I have proposed a simplification of the Federal Income Tax that would greatly benefit the middle and working class.


Replace ALL of the existing Income Tax code with its myriad of exemptions and deductions with a code based on:


All Income from all sources legal or illegal with one deduction equal to the 90th percentile of all taxable income. As businesses are considered individuals and most make far more than the 90th percentile they would be allowed to deduct the cost of business including dividends but not executive salaries above the 90th percentile from their revenues. They would then pay the taxes on any retained income above the individual 90th percentile. the tax rates on the top 10th percentile would be set on a sliding scale so the 99th percentile paid at 10 times the rate of the 91th percentile.


This would place the burden of operation the Federal government on the people that benefit most from the Federal government.
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