Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The tradition of disarming the common people goes back a lot farther than those guys. It goes all the way back to the Roman Empire. From the ashes of that empire, feudalism solidly established the well-armed bully rich (aristocrats, Lords, Dukes, Barons, Earls, etc.) vs disarmed poor (peasants and serfs) relationship all across Europe. All current political systems in place in Europe are ultimately successor systems to that feudalistic system. The common people of Europe have been disarmed for the better part of the last 2000 years.
The United States of America is a completely different social experiment. In this land, everyone can be well armed if they choose to be and is willing to spend the money. The results are mixed certainly. We do not have the same history of cataclysmic war after cataclysmic war here in the USA, nor in the Western Hemisphere as a whole for that matter. Post European colonization, as bad as it gets on this side of the globe is the Civil War, which absolutely pales in comparison to the 30 Years War, Napoleonic Wars, World War I, World War II, etc, all of which killed well over 5 million people. On the other hand, we do have higher murder and violent crime rates than Western Europe right now. Compared to the entire planet, it's not all the much higher. There are 120 out of 196 nations in the world with higher murder rates than the United States. The worst of them -- Honduras -- has a murder rate 22 times higher than ours. So when gun control activists say that the USA is the murder capital of the world, they are flat out lying. (Or they're just parroting BS somebody told them that they wanted to believe, so they never bothered fact-checking.) We aren't even close to being the murder capital of the world. But it is true that our murder rate really is two or three times the rate of that of most Western European nations. Whether that is a long-term trend or just temporary remains to be seen. But I suppose you could say that's the downside to an armed citizenry.
Great post- too bad I can't "rep" you (system won't let me).
When Europeans DID have arms, they used them against oppressive nations.
1. English civil war
2. Scottish uprising in the 1740s
3. Nothern Ireland
4. Austria against the Turks in the 1500s
5. The ejection of the Moors from Spain
6. partisan activity in German occupied Ukraine in WW2
One way or another, the current Muslim incursion into Europe at the behest of liberal politicians (and in opposition to the will of the people) will end in conflict. Only a moron (or a liberal) would assume that placing thousands of young, violent men with an 8th century culture in Europe would be a good idea.
Great post- too bad I can't "rep" you (system won't let me).
When Europeans DID have arms, they used them against oppressive nations.
1. English civil war
2. Scottish uprising in the 1740s
3. Northern Ireland
4. Austria against the Turks in the 1500s
5. The ejection of the Moors from Spain
6. partisan activity in German occupied Ukraine in WW2
One way or another, the current Muslim incursion into Europe at the behest of liberal politicians (and in opposition to the will of the people) will end in conflict. Only a moron (or a liberal) would assume that placing thousands of young, violent men with an 8th century culture in Europe would be a good idea.
And many of those examples are only poorly armed mostly improvised citizenries.
Europe could have done something about intelligently integrating Muslim refugees. For some idiot reason, they didn't. The naive notion that everything would just sort itself out naturally perhaps? The truth is, Muslims can integrate. Cultural notions of rape entitlement, rape victim shaming and viewing women as subhuman livestock -- those notions needed to be untaught, with the understanding that, "If you're going to live here, you'll do it our way, or you have to leave. We will send you back to that hellhole you were running from when you got here." When in Rome, do as the Romans do, or get the hell out.
The United States presents a difficult target for anyone who wants to come here and try to bully their way into power. There are enough guns in the USA to arm every man woman and child living in this nation. Any would be occupying tyranny -- whether it be millions of violent refugees or home-grown government gone wrong or an actual invading foreign army -- will find that the USA cannot be bullied not occupied. We will be ruled only if, when and how we consent to be ruled over. Nobody wants to invade the USA. Nobody. That's a pretty nice benefit IMHO.
According to population growth study in one of my college classes, they were predicting that Europe would be majority Muslim in 30 years and this was without the current immigrants. Muslims have a high birth rate and European's birth rate is all an all-time low.
I'd switch colleges if I was you - or ask for a refund if that's the sort of crap they are teaching
and no, England doesn't want guns back and it wont happen, sorry to disappoint your little fantasies
Basically, remove 10-20 of the most violent cities in America from the statistics and they change significantly as far as violence goes. On a state by state basis we have states like VT that are safer than most of Europe with the least restrictive gun laws in the world.
Cities like Plano, TX are safer than europe and have lots more guns.
The purpose of the 2nd Amendment in the US, given we are a nation born out of a violent revolution secured through firearms, is to permit citizens to use firearms as a means of final resort to deal with a tyranical government.
Europe has been, for the most part, disarmed. I wonder if the citizens of Europe, given the massive influx of Muslims foiseted upon them by thier "leaders" (despite thier objections), now wish they had firearms?
Tyrants love to disarm nations (see Hitler, Stalin, Castro, Pol Pot, Mao), thus preventing citizens from ultimately rising against them.
Perhaps there will be an increase in the appreciation for the Amercian 2nd amendment in Europe and a realization that an armed nation is the only thing that liberal politicians actually fear.
But that's not what guns are used for these days is it. I'm still waiting for citizens to rise up against government with their guns. Will this happen soon. And no they won't appreciate our second amendment because they don't understand America's fascination with guns.
I propose that the European Union allow citizens in member states to purchase a handgun at the least to protect themselves and their families. Make a permitting system, require a safety class and permit them to carry it throughout the EU. We live in a different world now and with the whole migrant crisis in Europe people need to be standing up to their country's government and demanding access to self defense weapons including firearms. Most will probably be against allowing guns since they don't want to end up like the U.S.. Which wont be a problem if they have a stricter law and only give them out to certain people who go through the proper channels they shouldn't have any problems. I agree with the OP many in Europe are quite submissive when it comes to giving up freedoms to the government.
Few Muslims even appear to assimilate, and those that do follow the adage that "a radical Muslims wants to kill you, and a moderate Muslims wants a radical Muslim to kill you."
That's simply not true where I live, usually the first generation of immigrants are nice and try to assimilate, but some of the second generation (their children) have identity issues and cause problems.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Workin_Hard
I think Europe should get over this "all cultures have equal value" crap and start standing up for themselves, their countries, and their culture. Stop acquiescing to the newcomers if you are giving them succor and a chance for survival. The rule is (or should be) "our country, our culture - assimilate fully or get out."
Time to man up, Europe, while you still have a chance. Arm every citizen, man and woman, and make it known that the bad behavior will not be tolerated.
You guys used to be so good at building walls. Time to revive that skillset.
True story: I'm on the board of our local HOA (a community council here in the US). A family in our neighborhood illegally built a fence enclosing community property. After several attempts at having them correct it, I ordered it torn down. They immediately started screaming that I was prejudice and hated them for their country of origin (Pakistan) and religion (you can guess that one). I countered with "Yes, you're right, but you still have to move the damn fence." They said I hated all immigrants and I asked if they had met my Russian wife. They threatened to call the police, I told them the police had already been notified and would be present at the demolition. I set the conditions and didn't give a damn what they thought of me doing so. Problem solved. Grow some balls, Europe!
And many of those examples are only poorly armed mostly improvised citizenries.
Europe could have done something about intelligently integrating Muslim refugees. For some idiot reason, they didn't. The naive notion that everything would just sort itself out naturally perhaps? The truth is, Muslims can integrate. Cultural notions of rape entitlement, rape victim shaming and viewing women as subhuman livestock -- those notions needed to be untaught, with the understanding that, "If you're going to live here, you'll do it our way, or you have to leave. We will send you back to that hellhole you were running from when you got here." When in Rome, do as the Romans do, or get the hell out.
The United States presents a difficult target for anyone who wants to come here and try to bully their way into power. There are enough guns in the USA to arm every man woman and child living in this nation. Any would be occupying tyranny -- whether it be millions of violent refugees or home-grown government gone wrong or an actual invading foreign army -- will find that the USA cannot be bullied not occupied. We will be ruled only if, when and how we consent to be ruled over. Nobody wants to invade the USA. Nobody. That's a pretty nice benefit IMHO.
Oh brother!
All of this castigating Europe by a nation of firearm owners who've sat back and watched this play out in their own nation without doing squat about it.
All this bellicose blather from a bunch of pansies all armed to the teeth who've done nothing but watch while their country has been virtually invaded by over 12 million of these.
Just stop with the vilification of Europe. You've stood back and watched while doing NOTHING for decades to stem the tide of illegals entering your country and committing violent crimes at a higher rate than anything witnessed to date being committed in Europe.
Europe can sustain another decade or two of like behaviour before the playing field will even begin to be even with "stupid" America and it's experience with illegals.
30,000 killed a year in the US by guns and people are worried about ownership in Europe?
More people killed by guns since 1968 than all our wars combined and your fear is Europe not having enough guns, weird.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
