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I'm serious here. Convince me they are necessary. I get it, if they are banned only the bad guys will have them. I totally get that argument. But they would also be harder to get. And of course the mothers of the guys who shot up the theater in Aura Colorado or the school in Sandy Hook etc would not have had one either.
I am just struggling to understand the need for them. Is it "if they take this gun then who will stop them from taking others?" argument? I'd honestly like to understand why you feel they are so necessary.
First assault rifle is a misnomer. Assault rifles are fully automatic and require An application for the ffl stamp (high tax and a lot of rules) to get. The everyday person can't.
Semiautomatic rifles that conflated into 'assault' rifles had s ban from 94 to 2004. No change in statistics. It had all sorts of rules as well which one can easily look up.
If it's how many rounds are held in a magazine, there are .22s that have huge drum clips. .22s are not put out as scary by the media. The average gun limiting advocate isn't scared of those. .22s can kill you.
The average hunting rifle fires a much powerful round than the 'assault rifle' everyone is scared of.
Without going to wiki, explain the difference between a cartridge and a bullet. Lol.
We get it: some hate guns for a reason and will never be convinced. That's fine. Use, little jimmy?, arguments all you want. It's a pathos argument and holds no water. The physics of a round are no different between a .25 auto and a 16 inch gun on a battle ship. It's just the 16 inch round will destroy the deer! Lol
And I need not prove a damn thing to you. They are legal. Make a non pathos argument about little jimmy finding moms gun and shooting little Mary and maybe someone will listen. Until then, don't care.
Well obviously you do care or you would not have responded. Me? I care a lot when I hear these tragic stories of kids getting into dad's guns.
I will admit to not having your knowledge on guns, that's obvious, but I do know the difference between a cartridge and a bullet. But I really want to understand more. And I certainly understand the difference between the carnage an assault or hunting rifle can inflict vs. a .22. The ban in '94-'04 really wouldn't change my thoughts, the mass shootings weren't another Tuesday in 1994 as they seem to be today. So again I'll ask why do you feel so compelled to own an assault rifle? Why do you need such a huge round that it will "destroy a deer" and also unfortunately destroy people too?
Last edited by DaveinMtAiry; 03-12-2016 at 04:15 PM..
Well obviously you do care or you would not have responded. Me? I care a lot when I hear these tragic stories of kids getting into dad's guns.
I will admit to not having your knowledge on guns, that's obvious, but I do know the difference between a cartridge and a bullet. But I really want to understand more. And I certainly understand the difference between the carnage an assault or hunting rifle can inflict vs. a .22. The ban in '94-'04 really wouldn't change my thoughts, the mass shootings weren't another Tuesday in 1994 as they seem to be today. So again I'll ask why do you feel so compelled to own an assault rifle? Why do you need such a huge round that it will "destroy a deer" and also unfortunately destroy people too?
I don't personally own a rifle, and I sold my 45 and shotgun.
I was once like you... Then I started reading the physics and realized the hypocrisy of my own argument. Simple as that.
I don't 'argue' by analogy. I sometimes use analogies to explain things. So when one wants to invite the government to ban yet another product, there better be some damn valid reason to give more power over to them.
Well obviously you do care or you would not have responded. Me? I care a lot when I hear these tragic stories of kids getting into dad's guns.
I will admit to not having your knowledge on guns, that's obvious, but I do know the difference between a cartridge and a bullet. But I really want to understand more. And I certainly understand the difference between the carnage an assault or hunting rifle can inflict vs. a .22. The ban in '94-'04 really wouldn't change my thoughts, the mass shootings weren't another Tuesday in 1994 as they seem to be today. So again I'll ask why do you feel so compelled to own an assault rifle? Why do you need such a huge round that it will "destroy a deer" and also unfortunately destroy people too?
It is not about NEED, it is about WANT, why does a person need 4 cars, or why does another person need 10 watches, the answer is because they can. If a person buys a type of rifle that is legal, both at the federal level and the state level; that individual is allowed to own a firearm and can afford to buy it; that that is all of the justification that is needed. A person just not have to justify a purchase, as long as that purchase is not illegal. And owning a so called "Assault Rifle" is no different.
Well thank you for at least participating instead of sitting on the sidelines throwing cheap shots.
I never threw cheap shots, unless you think that me telling you to do some research is a "cheap shot."
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Originally Posted by DaveinMtAiry
That's a pretty cool safe that would definitely fit both needs. Now if you can convince me that every single home with a gun actually had this unique safe, well then you'd have yourself a legit argument.
No no no children, you did not ask that, you asked a specific question and now when that questions is answered you move the gal post, how childish of you.
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Originally Posted by DaveinMtAiry
But of course as we all know that isn't even close to the truth.
When you make your own rules, you are absolutely 100% correct....
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveinMtAiry
I'm still not convinced that either guns are locked away safely in a gun box or a gun safe and therefore difficult if not impossible to get the instant dad discovers a bad guy in his daughter's bedroom with a gun to her head or they are under a bed etc where they can be found by the wrong hands in the vast number of cases.
Come on, really....if you want to play what if games to prove your point, then you need to move on. I have provided you with what you said is not there, now you are mad and trying to make up situations...pretty sad to be honest.
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Originally Posted by DaveinMtAiry
I assume Guns and Ammo is a reliable source right? Here is their recommendations for how to store a gun. They gave a vague "Some boxes are fitted with quick-opening locking mechanisms" but of course those are the exceptions.
I could not find that exact quote in the link you provided? I mean quotes are to provide exactly what was said, right? Maybe provide the paragraph, here, and use the quote button.....
Every other recommendation fits the description I have been using and are simply not instant access. So please stop proclaiming victory with a product that is not even close to being universally used.
Well of course, but that is not what you started out with, now is it?
But again, you did not ask for something that is "universally used" now did you? Of course not.
When you are PROVEN WRONG, just keep moving the goal post, that is exactly what you are doing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveinMtAiry
This is my position. If you would like to despute it then YOU do the research and show me where I am wrong.
I have, many times, yet when I have proven you wrong, you keep moving that darn goal post....
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveinMtAiry
And one product that is not even close to being used in every home with a gun hardly wins this debate.
Again, not what you asked for.......get your story straight, stop changing the subject, stop moving the goal post...then we can talk. What debate, how many times you were proven wrong and then moved the goal post, well hell yea, you won the "moving the goal post debate" all day long, hell you can have that win....
Well thank you for at least participating instead of sitting on the sidelines throwing cheap shots. That's a pretty cool safe that would definitely fit both needs. Now if you can convince me that every single home with a gun actually had this unique safe, well then you'd have yourself a legit argument. But of course as we all know that isn't even close to the truth. I'm still not convinced that either guns are locked away safely in a gun box or a gun safe and therefore difficult if not impossible to get the instant dad discovers a bad guy in his daughter's bedroom with a gun to her head or they are under a bed etc where they can be found by the wrong hands in the vast number of cases.
I assume Guns and Ammo is a reliable source right? Here is their recommendations for how to store a gun. They gave a vague "Some boxes are fitted with quick-opening locking mechanisms" but of course those are the exceptions. Every other recommendation fits the description I have been using and are simply not instant access. So please stop proclaiming victory with a product that is not even close to being universally used.
This is my position. If you would like to despute it then YOU do the research and show me where I am wrong. And one product that is not even close to being used in every home with a gun hardly wins this debate.
No one cares if you're convinced, live your life the way you like and let others do the same. Is it a good thing or a bad thing that the guy got shot? can you point out the bad part without an imaginary story? I don't own a gun and never have, just to be clear on my point of view.
Since you probably missed this story, or don't want to acknowlede it, let me help you out. The story this week of the pro-gun mom who has spent her life telling the other side how stupid we were when she wasn't bragging about her 4 year old's shooting ability. Then of course he shot her in the back. How stupid does she look now?
Your comments about an intruder not making it into the house confirms your multiple guns are not locked up safely. Thank you for proving my point.
You had your chance and offered nothing so I'll just proceed without you.
I already referenced the reporter's story in Albequerque, I saw it a ton and I live 2,000 miles from Albequerque. But you are right, most are local stories because they are in fact local stories just as a car jacking, bank robbery or a local kid beating cancer would be. Point is these stories are covered by the media as the NRA link showed.
I agree that's a dumb idea. But of course the poster I was responding to said nothing about that. That poster claimed Hillary was going to try to take his/her guns away and that was what I was addressing. This is a common battle cry from the pro-guns side and it's nonsense. No liberal with the exception of the fringe wack jobs has ever tried to take your guns. I certainly don' t think that would be right. So you guys need to stop screaming this because it's not true and it has never been true.
" No liberal with the exception of the fringe wack jobs has ever tried to take your guns"
I suggest you look up New Orleans after Katrina.
It is NOT for a LACK of trying.
" Point is these stories are covered by the media as the NRA link showed."
MY point is that the NATIONAL alphabet MEDIA does NOT show these types of stories and when they do it is only because they distort what actually happens and leave out info that shows gun ownership as a GOOD thing.
I never threw cheap shots, unless you think that me telling you to do some research is a "cheap shot."
No no no children, you did not ask that, you asked a specific question and now when that questions is answered you move the gal post, how childish of you.
When you make your own rules, you are absolutely 100% correct....
Come on, really....if you want to play what if games to prove your point, then you need to move on. I have provided you with what you said is not there, now you are mad and trying to make up situations...pretty sad to be honest.
I could not find that exact quote in the link you provided? I mean quotes are to provide exactly what was said, right? Maybe provide the paragraph, here, and use the quote button.....
Well of course, but that is not what you started out with, now is it?
But again, you did not ask for something that is "universally used" now did you? Of course not.
When you are PROVEN WRONG, just keep moving the goal post, that is exactly what you are doing.
I have, many times, yet when I have proven you wrong, you keep moving that darn goal post....
Again, not what you asked for.......get your story straight, stop changing the subject, stop moving the goal post...then we can talk. What debate, how many times you were proven wrong and then moved the goal post, well hell yea, you won the "moving the goal post debate" all day long, hell you can have that win....
While the others remain civil and respectful to a degree you my friend have become annoying. I never moved the goal posts, that's just stupid. I have simply asked how can a gun be available in an instant for home protection and also be stored away safely.
You post a link showing one product that is simply not used universally, then you proceed with a victory dance. What you are doing is no different than arguing seat belt laws suck, then providing random stories where passengers without seat belts flew out the window and survived while others with the seat belts died. Then you cry when others point out the exception to the rule doesn't prove a damn thing. Again since your safe is not used in most households with guns and kids it is not solving the problem by itself. I honestly don't understand why that was so difficult for you to understand.
As for the Guns and Ammo article here is the link again.
Strong Boxes and Metallic Gun Cases ($25 – $350):
In an effort to strike a balance between the security offered by a locking gun cabinet and the portability of a gun case, several companies offer portable strong boxes and metallic gun cases. Metal gun cases usually incorporate a reliable locking system or the means to attach heavy padlocks. Strong boxes, usually intended for handguns, offer mounting systems for permanent attachment to a fixed surface. Some boxes are fitted with quick-opening locking mechanisms, including electronic push-button access and fingerprint scanners.
In a 17 paragraph article dedicated to gun storage one sentence was used on your safe.
Last edited by DaveinMtAiry; 03-13-2016 at 07:45 AM..
Will a pro-gun person explain how a carried firearm would make any difference if a person is struck by a randomly fired bullet when sitting on ones porch or a room facing a city street, playing in a school play ground or walking down a sidewalk ? This happens about 2-3 times a week in Washington DC. I think it is hard to use a gun if you are on the verge of blacking out due to blood loss after being struck by a gun bullet!
Those randomly fired bullets are almost always fired by someone who is a convicted felon and is already violating one or more gun laws. The best thing you can do to reduce this problem is enforce strictly the laws already on the books.
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