Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I question whether America has both, as America is not like Norway (i.e. super wealthy, yet little inequality). On average, I don't think Americans are as "rich" as what some would have us believe.
There seem to be a mismatch between some statistical data and the perceived reality in the U.S. It seems to depend on which statistical data one use.
According to the Bureau of Economic Analysis:
Data for IV 2015:
Total national disposable personal income: $13,575.4bn
Total national personal consumption expenditures: $12,444.7bn
Population about 322.7m
Disposable personal income per capita: $42,068
Personal consumption expenditures per capita: $38,564
There is an enormous difference between the data. How can the difference be explained? I don't know, but the data from the household survey makes much more sense. Because the figures are quite similar to the data about the mean household income from the US Census Bureau.
Same approach for the data in Germany:
Data for 2014:
Disposable personal income per capita: €21,100
Personal consumption expenditures per capita: €18,540
In Germany both statistical sources provide very similar results for the disposable income: €21,100 vs €19,248. The difference can be easily explained because of the excluding of very rich households in the household survey.
If we use the disposable income data deduced from (the somewhat artificial) GDP figures, then Americans seem to be extremely rich. If one use the data from the household survey or the US Census Bureau, then Americans are just as rich as people in other rich countries.
If we subtract spendings for healthcare, education and pensions from the disposable income, then Americans are probably somewhat poorer then people in other rich countries. That would be in line to what people from other rich countries perceive by visiting the U.S.
The attempt by the OECD or UN to measure happiness is pretty absurd. How will you measure happiness? The weighting of the determinants are absolutely subjective. For example they also include the GDP. Therefore no one knows whether the Swedes are happier or not.
You need to read more before commenting about statistics.
What you are referring to is OECD better life index. I am talking about OECD happiness measure, which is an indicator in their better life index.
They measure happiness by asking people how happy they are, on a scale from 1 to 10. The result is that americans and swedish are equally happy. This might seem strange for progressives, who think Sweden is some kind of nirvana.
Quote:
A family of four in Germany living completely on social benefits would get around €25,000 annually in social benefits (Exact amount depends on housing costs).
No they won't. They will get 4560 in child benefits, and 7740 in welfare benefits, and not sure about housing benefits but it is not more than 5000. That is not even close to €25,000. http://www.evz.de/fileadmin/user_upl...Germany_en.pdf
In fact if you have two working parents, earning minimum wage, then your total wage will be €35,000. That won't go very far in Germany.
Quote:
The family in the U.S. will most likely need a car, the family in Germany not.
You need a car in Germany too, most places with cheap housing do not have proper public transport. You will also need to pay a lot more for your car, because it is heavily taxed.
No they won't. They will get 4560 in child benefits, and 7740 in welfare benefits, and not sure about housing benefits but it is not more than 5000. That is not even close to €25,000. http://www.evz.de/fileadmin/user_upl...Germany_en.pdf
You need a car in Germany too, most places with cheap housing do not have proper public transport.
Please don't write such nonsense. BTW, your source is from 2010.
730 Euro per month for the parents, and 612 Euro per month for the two kids (that includes child allowance). Altogether 16,104 Euro per year.
Every city or Kreis (county) in Germany has an overview about the maximum housing costs that will be paid by the local welfare agency.
Here the overview for Düsseldorf: http://www.jobcenter-duesseldorf.de/...erkunftheizung
A family of 4 will get up to 869 Euro per month for "Miete + Nebenkosten" (rent and utilities). They also pay the heating costs, that's probably about 80 Euro per month. Altogether 11,388 Euro per year.
16,104 Euro + 11,388 Euro = 27,492 Euro per year. It's even significant more then I have estimated.
You will not find a place in Germany without suitable public transportation. But I have to admit it's quite inconvenient in very rural areas. People living on social benefits don't have to move to rural areas with cheaper rents, because the local welfare agency pays a sufficient amount for housing that you can find an appropriate apartment in the city where you want to live.
Here two examples for apartments in Düsseldorf, where rent and utitlities would be covered by the housing benefit.
The first one is in the city center, the second one is in a well desired upscale residential area:
You will also need to pay a lot more for your car, because it is heavily taxed
Gasoline is pretty expensive in Germany, but you don't need to drive that much like in the U.S. And the costs for car insurance are almost half of what they are in the U.S.
Monthly payment for a cheap used car: 100 Euro
Gasoline: 80 Euro
Insurance: 40 Euro
Motor vehicle tax: 20 Euro
Reserve for repairs: 60 Euro Total: 300 Euro per month. It's really not a big deal for low income earners to own a car.
Quote:
In fact if you have two working parents, earning minimum wage, then your total wage will be €35,000. That won't go very far in Germany.
It's way easier to live on that amount in Germany than it would be in the U.S. A comparable apartment in a boring small town in Massachusetts would cost me at least 50% more than what I pay in Düsseldorf.
The housing benefits is better than what I expected, is that the case for all German cities or is it just Dusseldorf?
Quote:
You will not find a place in Germany without suitable public transportation.
Really, you can't find places in Germany with suitable public transport? I am going to pick an example close to Dusseldorf, which I assume is your home.
Lets say, I live in Wuppertal, and work in Lennep. This is a 25 minute drive, how do you suggest I get there by public transport? This is not a very rural area, its right next to a big city, and has 330K people living in it.
Most people in Germany do need a car.
Quote:
Gasoline is pretty expensive in Germany, but you don't need to drive that much like in the U.S. And the costs for car insurance are almost half of what they are in the U.S.
Monthly payment for a cheap used car: 100 Euro
Gasoline: 80 Euro
Insurance: 40 Euro
Motor vehicle tax: 20 Euro
Reserve for repairs: 60 Euro Total: 300 Euro per month. It's really not a big deal for low income earners to own a car.
300 euro is quite a lot of money for someone who has 1100 euros to spend for 4 people. Its totally unafforable.
Quote:
It's way easier to live on that amount in Germany than it would be in the U.S. A comparable apartment in a boring small town in Massachusetts would cost me at least 50% more than what I pay in Düsseldorf.
YLets say, I live in Wuppertal, and work in Lennep. This is a 25 minute drive, how do you suggest I get there by public transport? This is not a very rural area, its right next to a big city, and has 330K people living in it.
However, we need to take a few things into account before measuring poverty rate. You are comparing relative poverty rates, which doesn't take into account that the average US income adjusted for costs is pretty high.
I assume you are referring to purchasing power? If so, then I agree that the U.S. is advantageous in that respect.
However, aren't average income figures in the U.S. heavily skewed by those in the top quantile?
For example, a recent Fed survey revealed that 47% of Americans would either have to borrow or sell something to cover a $400 emergency (Gabler, The Atlantic 2016).
We all know that the wealthiest Americans are wealthier than the wealthiest Swedes, but there's far more doubt about whether the average American is better off than the average Swede.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camlon
Another thing we need to take into account is how diverse US is. A lot of US poverty comes from poor states like Mississippi. But those kind of states also have very low cost of living.
It's an American myth that Sweden has (or had right before the migrant/refugee crisis) an entirely homogenous population that all work. There are lower socioeconomic areas in Sweden too.
According to the OECD (2013), the foreign-born population in Sweden (16%) is higher than in the U.S. (13.1%). Also, the unemployment rate for foreign-borns is 10.6% higher in Sweden than in the U.S. (OECD 2014).
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
