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Old 04-21-2016, 04:35 PM
 
Location: Southwest
720 posts, read 806,264 times
Reputation: 770

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Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey View Post
Had you experienced more difficulties in life, you might see the irony in what you have written.


Being untested doesn`t make you superior to someone who has struggled and failed.


Succumbing to the pressures of life is how we discover our flaws and learn to be better humans.


Opposed to this regenerative process is government and statism generally.

You certainly did read a lot into Julian658's post that he didn't write, or even address as a topic! Consider looking up the words "infer" and "inference" for their definitions.
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Old 04-21-2016, 06:10 PM
 
Location: Southwest
720 posts, read 806,264 times
Reputation: 770
Default Blessed or luck - it isn't all "earned."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loveshiscountry View Post
This is a "You didn't build that", right?
Blessed? You earned it.
No, Julian658 has it right.

Yes, hard work helps, but ultimately, luck has more to do with success than do our own individual efforts. Hard work and smart choices are tools used to take advantage of opportunities, but opportunities are dependent on variables provided by luck.

From what country we are born into, to where in a country we are born, to what family we are born into, to what kind of upbringing we receive, to what resources are available to us, to what mentors may or may not take an interest in us at various points, to what health problems or accidents we may suffer, to what random opportunities come our way because we are in the right place at just the right time, to what opportunities we miss because they don't come along at the right time or in the right place, and so on, are all random luck. We do not choose those aspects of our human experience. We do not make them happen. We do not "earn" them. If any of those variables place us in a better position, they provide us opportunities that, if other aspects of our lives helped prepare us for it in time, we can take advantage of.

We are not all born in the same place with the same health, genetics, looks, personalities, circumstances, resources, influences, or opportunities. We do not all have the same experiences once we are born or throughout our lives. Those with less random good luck regarding the wide variety of variables can work as hard or harder than anyone on the planet and still never "build" anything because it isn't possible.

The person working 12-hour-shifts, five-to-six-days-a-week, for $10-$11.00 an hour (if even that much) and no benefits in a restaurant we eat in is no less deserving than the Donald Trumps of the world (who was born with a silver spoon in his mouth but still managed to bankrupt multiple businesses), nor less than the local doctor, dentist, insurance agent, real estate agent, educator, government employee, or anyone else one can think of, but just working hard does not build a secure future. He or she is never going to "earn" a secure future no matter how hard he or she works.

The persons who cannot work more than part-time in the kitchen of a restaurant we eat in are no less deserving either, because they are denied full-time employment in order to increase profits for restaurant owners. Part-time employees cost owners less to employ so too many are denied full-time employment (more employees, but most or all working only part-time), while also earning little and receiving no benefits. In a bad economy that is increasingly dependent on the service sector to employee citizens, people cannot just change jobs. There aren't enough other options available for everyone.

Those with the good luck of being born into and/or offered better opportunities along the way, like Donald Trump as only one example, help keep those persons stuck there by employing them for little and supporting public policies designed to be ungenerous in order to keep most of the goodies for themselves. Those without their luck will be their wage slaves or economic prey.

Only a small minority in those restaurant kitchens (or any other job in any other similarly designed job sector), will be able to earn and build something bigger, better, and more secure. That small minority of workers, not born into opportunity but still able to build toward affluence and security, are the ones who will meet the right people offering encouragement and opportunities at the right times, when they will be in a position to take advantage of those opportunities. Everyone else is going to spend their lives as hardworking members of the working-poor, as long as they can stay employed at all in this economy that is.

The wiser person is the one who recognizes the role of luck in his or her success. Whether one calls it luck or being blessed, it's a more balanced, realistic perspective that should inform one's values and treatment of others.

Last edited by pgrdr; 04-21-2016 at 06:31 PM.. Reason: spelling corrections
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Old 04-21-2016, 10:05 PM
 
33,316 posts, read 12,522,497 times
Reputation: 14945
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgrdr View Post
No, Julian658 has it right.

Yes, hard work helps, but ultimately, luck has more to do with success than do our own individual efforts. Hard work and smart choices are tools used to take advantage of opportunities, but opportunities are dependent on variables provided by luck.

From what country we are born into, to where in a country we are born, to what family we are born into, to what kind of upbringing we receive, to what resources are available to us, to what mentors may or may not take an interest in us at various points, to what health problems or accidents we may suffer, to what random opportunities come our way because we are in the right place at just the right time, to what opportunities we miss because they don't come along at the right time or in the right place, and so on, are all random luck. We do not choose those aspects of our human experience. We do not make them happen. We do not "earn" them. If any of those variables place us in a better position, they provide us opportunities that, if other aspects of our lives helped prepare us for it in time, we can take advantage of.

We are not all born in the same place with the same health, genetics, looks, personalities, circumstances, resources, influences, or opportunities. We do not all have the same experiences once we are born or throughout our lives. Those with less random good luck regarding the wide variety of variables can work as hard or harder than anyone on the planet and still never "build" anything because it isn't possible.

The person working 12-hour-shifts, five-to-six-days-a-week, for $10-$11.00 an hour (if even that much) and no benefits in a restaurant we eat in is no less deserving than the Donald Trumps of the world (who was born with a silver spoon in his mouth but still managed to bankrupt multiple businesses), nor less than the local doctor, dentist, insurance agent, real estate agent, educator, government employee, or anyone else one can think of, but just working hard does not build a secure future. He or she is never going to "earn" a secure future no matter how hard he or she works.

The persons who cannot work more than part-time in the kitchen of a restaurant we eat in are no less deserving either, because they are denied full-time employment in order to increase profits for restaurant owners. Part-time employees cost owners less to employ so too many are denied full-time employment (more employees, but most or all working only part-time), while also earning little and receiving no benefits. In a bad economy that is increasingly dependent on the service sector to employee citizens, people cannot just change jobs. There aren't enough other options available for everyone.

Those with the good luck of being born into and/or offered better opportunities along the way, like Donald Trump as only one example, help keep those persons stuck there by employing them for little and supporting public policies designed to be ungenerous in order to keep most of the goodies for themselves. Those without their luck will be their wage slaves or economic prey.

Only a small minority in those restaurant kitchens (or any other job in any other similarly designed job sector), will be able to earn and build something bigger, better, and more secure. That small minority of workers, not born into opportunity but still able to build toward affluence and security, are the ones who will meet the right people offering encouragement and opportunities at the right times, when they will be in a position to take advantage of those opportunities. Everyone else is going to spend their lives as hardworking members of the working-poor, as long as they can stay employed at all in this economy that is.

The wiser person is the one who recognizes the role of luck in his or her success. Whether one calls it luck or being blessed, it's a more balanced, realistic perspective that should inform one's values and treatment of others.
Baloney. Is this a scenario handed to you by a professor?

The problem is neither you, nor the person in your hypothetical example, are thinking outside the box.

One of my best friends had nothing but a beat up small pickup, some clothes, and a mattress.

He moved in with his parents. His parents were renting a house, and they needed help with the rent.

He got a job washing windows for a company with residential accounts. He paid very close attention during his training period.

He worked for them for a few weeks, and the company tried to cheat him on something, so he quit.

He had paid his parents rent for his bedroom, he ate cheaply, spent a bit on gas and insurance, and saved the rest over those few weeks.

He then spent under $100 on some rudimentary equipment and some business cards.

He started canvassing non gated affluent neighborhoods.

He would ring doorbells, and leave a card if nobody answered the door.

He followed up like crazy. He worked his a** off.

He bid specific amounts for each service, so the faster he was able to perform, the more he made per hour......and he did a fantastic job.

He soon added rescreening to his eventual array of services.

The hard work kept him in fantastic shape.

His customers wanted the work done during good weather...when they would be doing quite a bit of entertaining. The bids these customers would agree to were just astounding. The most profitable day he ever had....a long summer day....a bit over 16 hours IIRC.....$4,000.00. He would work his a** off during the time of the year he could book enough business to keep really busy. If customers needed work done during slow periods, they would hire someone else. However, they would always rehire him during 'high season' because not a one ever found anyone who would do as good a job as my friend did. During other parts of the year, he focused his energies elsewhere.

He ended up buying his parents a house, and eventually sold the business.
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Old 04-21-2016, 10:24 PM
 
Location: somewhere in the woods
16,880 posts, read 15,198,564 times
Reputation: 5240
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
Bleh...conservative white Christian males are perpetually p*ssed off. They've been that way since they arrived on these shores. Talk about hate. All this stuff about women and minorities getting the vote, equal work for equal pay, and white men not being able to micromanage this society anymore without any scrutiny has driven them over the precipice.

But that's their problem. White males aren't happy. Great. Join the club called Everybody Else.

if you truly want hate, then you have no further to look than the democrat party.
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Old 04-21-2016, 11:07 PM
 
Location: Japan
15,292 posts, read 7,758,205 times
Reputation: 10006
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgrdr View Post
We are not all born in the same place with the same health, genetics, looks, personalities, circumstances, resources, influences, or opportunities. We do not all have the same experiences once we are born or throughout our lives.
True, and important to keep in mind.
Quote:
Those with less random good luck regarding the wide variety of variables can work as hard or harder than anyone on the planet and still never "build" anything because it isn't possible.
Actually, I don't think they can. The desire and capacity to work hard at building something is also the result of the random factors you mention. Many people just don't have that. But those who do can often succeed despite obstacles.
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Old 04-22-2016, 02:11 PM
 
Location: Ohio
2,801 posts, read 2,309,466 times
Reputation: 1654
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loveshiscountry View Post
A conservative believes in the individual and a limited Federal government along with states rights.
You believe in falsely playing the race card because you cannot discuss policy. And why would you want to discuss policy? All it would do is expose the failures of big government.
Limited Federal Government EXCEPT when it comes to marriage and birth control, or anything else they don't agree with.

Most of them are so sexually dysfunctional they can't have a normal relationship with anyone, ever notice how many of them have multiple marriages and/or get busted breaking some sex based laws?

Or they take trips to kiddy-sex wonderland with a lifetime supply of Viagra?
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Old 04-22-2016, 02:15 PM
 
Location: Planet Telex
5,900 posts, read 3,899,147 times
Reputation: 5856
Why would any white male adult be a liberal? Self-deprecation.
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Old 04-22-2016, 02:20 PM
 
7,006 posts, read 6,994,198 times
Reputation: 7060
Why would any intelligent, white adult male vote for Hillary Clinton? The Queen of Divisive Identity Politics has managed to pander to every minority/women's group out there, but one group she won't address and the one group that truly matters: all Americans. That includes the Left's favorite boogeyman group, straight white males.
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Old 04-22-2016, 02:26 PM
 
1,185 posts, read 1,503,440 times
Reputation: 2297
Today, it makes absolute zero.

15 years ago it made sense. The liberal ideologies were different. It was more for the middle, working class family.

Today they have an agenda, one that doesn't include the white man.
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Old 04-22-2016, 02:29 PM
 
Location: Southwest
720 posts, read 806,264 times
Reputation: 770
Default Missing the point

Quote:
Originally Posted by RMESMH View Post
Baloney. Is this a scenario handed to you by a professor?

The problem is neither you, nor the person in your hypothetical example, are thinking outside the box.

One of my best friends had nothing but a beat up small pickup, some clothes, and a mattress.

He ended up buying his parents a house, and eventually sold the business.
In response to your condescending question, no it isn't "a scenario handed to me by a professor." My professors are in my distant past, which means they long ceased to be an influence.

From your comment I suspect I am older than you, meaning far more life experience, and for decades studied and read a lot, including social science studies on various topics, such as this one.

Your example of your friend in no way contradicts anything I wrote. You've missed the point and need to go deeper because it is you who is not thinking "outside the box."

I'll help you kick it off with this: Your friend's assets of his innate personality and his parents and their resources were luck for him, not something he earned. His not experiencing any random disastrous health or accident events along the way to stop him in his tracks was good luck, not something he earned. Good luck providing him resources and opportunities to take advantage of, that are not available to everyone, combined with his work is what made him succeed. Without the initial resources available to him purely by the luck of the draw regarding who his parents were and what resources they had to share, his outcome wouldn't have been the same.

Last edited by pgrdr; 04-22-2016 at 03:33 PM.. Reason: corrections
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