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As to compared to where??? Japan,South Africa,India,France........I've said it before This is the only country in the World where some many races,creeds, live together without constant struggle if not outright warfare.............
This is a strawman argument. The poster was not making a statement of comparison, rather it was a statement of fact rooted in some 400 years of American history.
This is a strawman argument. The poster was not making a statement of comparison, rather it was a statement of fact rooted in some 400 years of American history.
Strawman or not (one man's strawman may not be another's) it's a fair comment to an unsubstantiated post. The post, that "America is racist" was a statement of someone's evaluation of American society (i.e., it's a racist society). NO statement of evaluation of ANY kind has ANY validity at all without some sort of baseline comparison.
Nothing is "good" if you can't define "bad". "Hot or Cold", "Cheap or Expensive", "Rude or Polite", "Sweet or sour", "Good or Evil", NONE of them mean a thing unless we know what you're using as your 'standard'. A "warm summer day' in Greenland would be entirely different from a 'warm summer day' in Georgia. A 'reasonable hourly wage' would be quite different in Canada or in El Salvador.
Likewise, it's not possible to define a 'racist' country, unless you also tell us what you're comparing it WITH. Where is the "non-racist" society that America is so much WORSE than? Where is the nation with 20 Million illegal residents that HONORS them, and WELCOMES them, instead of 'abusing' them like America does?
So once again, I'll repeat---if America is indeed a racist country, what is your standard for comparison upon which you based your statement? Provide a few examples of NON-racist countries, so we'll know what you mean. Otherwise, anyone could say ANYTHING, like the angry teenager storming off to her bedroom, shouting at the top of her lungs as she slams her door, that HER parents are the "MEANEST PARENTS in the WHOLE WORLD".....(works fine, if you're a teenager---which I assume the poster was NOT)...
This is a strawman argument. The poster was not making a statement of comparison, rather it was a statement of fact rooted in some 400 years of American history.
If then, you are useing History as a baseline for "Raceist Country" Would it not be correct to presume that the older cultures of say China,Japan, the UK are more raceist then the US? It appears that you are useing time to support the argument? If so then please compare the time lines of salvery in those countries mentioned to the slavery timeline of this country. Again I do not say the US is not without race problems but I still submit that we got a handle on faster then any other country in history did.
Here's a guess. Assuming that culture is at work here, Asians have little tradition of any long-standing ties in American entertainment media. Despite their long presence here, at least on the west coast, Asians just haven't been nearly as a big part of entertainment as both whites and blacks have. Part of it may be societal prejudice against "Asian" characters--part may be an Asian cultural aversion to the rather brash, "in-your-face" style demanded by American audiences. In fact, without our substantial JEWISH immigration to America, I wonder if "white" participation in entertainment would be the way we have learned to expect...(just a thought). Perhaps without Jewish 'pizazz', Hollywood as we know it may be vastly different than it is.
The same factors may affect Asians' portrayals as 'rich guys'. When an American audience wants a stereotypical "rich" character, we demand a certain flamboyance (MOST movie characters, in fact, are exaggerations of real life). We want rich guys who ACT the part--loud, flashy, or at least not hesitant to "flaunt" their wealth. None of this fits easily into the Asian culture, which prizes conformity and decorum, not loud, vulgar, ostentatious displays.
Culture may even explain why Asians aren't 'richer' than they are. Years of education do not necessarily translate into the 'bold, self-promoting' qualities that are prized in American business, for those who 'claw their way to the top'. The Asian culture prizes teamwork---yet most American billionaires are 'mavericks', not team players..
Just my own 'guesses'....good questions !..
Perhaps just as important is that there are several more (in crude numerical terms) very rich whites than very rich asians. No matter what the relative proportions are, we are each much more likely to know of wealthy white men than wealthy Asians, and so will more likely respond more favorably to that proposition in film than the reverse. Hollywood, after all, is in the business of perpetuating stereotypes.
Furthermore, there should be some distinction between earnings and wealth. There are people who are wealthy (based on net assets) who may not necessarily be in the topmost percentiles in what they earn, with inheritance being a notable factor for this.
Again I do not say the US is not without race problems but I still submit that we got a handle on faster then any other country in history did.
Strawman (whatever that means)
Agreed. You mentioned the "sins" of America, and then you qualified your statement by comparing it with other places.... (And you seemed to conclude that America compared favorably)...Good reasoning.
America has had more racial turmoil than Iceland or South Korea, obviously. At the present time, it continues to have more racial problems than Haiti or Lithuania or Nepal. But this is less a condemnation of America's propensity for racist behavior, than it is an effect of the fact that these nations HAVE no significant racial minorities.
Of countries that HAVE hugely diverse populations, America has a fairly good record. It's done much to create a 'level playing field" for all races, and there is NO part of American life "closed" to any race. Many places have no 'problems" with minorities, because minorities are simply killed, legally marginalized, or never allowed 'in' at all. Other countries have a state of more-or-less chronic warfare between their races. Compared to these places, It's hard to call us a 'racist' country...more like an 'imperfect, but always improving' one...
At the present time, MOST of the complaints of America's minorities center around misunderstandings, cultural 'gaffes', vague charges of 'disrespect', failure to be included in certain income groups, the notion of past wrongs never fully acknowledged, and lots of unkind feelings and the sense of not being appreciated....all understandable, of course, as far as it goes.
HOWEVER, in many nations TODAY, the complaints of minorities include rape, murder, genocide, destruction of houses, uprooting of entire villages, and atrocities too unspeakable to mention. That's how SOME people handle their 'racial' problems, and I think we here do MUCH better, IMO...
Last edited by macmeal; 02-15-2008 at 11:36 AM..
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