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Old 04-09-2016, 08:36 AM
 
Location: Middle of nowhere
24,260 posts, read 14,203,370 times
Reputation: 9895

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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Hence, the Hobby Lobby SCOTUS ruling, no?

I realize it really irks you that we in the U.S. have Constitutional Rights. Perhaps a country ruled by dictatorship would be more to your liking.
So I can claim that raising pigs is a religious belief and zoning laws no longer apply to me. Right?

The barber in MS can claim that cutting gay mens hair violates his religious beliefs and it is perfectly ok. Right?
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Old 04-09-2016, 08:40 AM
 
Location: *
13,242 posts, read 4,922,259 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrose View Post
According to the 2014 MS religious freedom act he can. He can refuse service to people that violate his personal religious belief. He doesn't even have to prove that it is a part of any official religion. Anyone is allowed to claim their own religious belief.

PS you don't get to decide what "valid" religious belief is.
Wholeheartedly agree. Claiming one's own religious belief is one thing, using religious belief to discriminate against other folks who don't share one's religious beliefs is another.

There has always been a carved out exception for religious organizations.

One of the reasons why Holly Lobby was a landmark decision was because the corporations named are not religious organizations.
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Old 04-09-2016, 08:44 AM
 
Location: *
13,242 posts, read 4,922,259 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrose View Post
So I can claim that raising pigs is a religious belief and zoning laws no longer apply to me. Right?

The barber in MS can claim that cutting gay mens hair violates his religious beliefs and it is perfectly ok. Right?
You've just described one of key points in Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg's Dissent from the Holly Lobby ruling:

"Would the exemption…extend to employers with religiously grounded objections to blood transfusions (Jehovah's Witnesses); antidepressants (Scientologists); medications derived from pigs, including anesthesia, intravenous fluids, and pills coated with gelatin (certain Muslims, Jews, and Hindus); and vaccinations[?]…Not much help there for the lower courts bound by today's decision."
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Old 04-09-2016, 08:45 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,989 posts, read 44,804,275 times
Reputation: 13693
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrose View Post
So I can claim that raising pigs is a religious belief and zoning laws no longer apply to me. Right?
If SCOTUS rules that to be a valid religious objection, yes. Good luck with that.

Quote:
The barber in MS can claim that cutting gay mens hair violates his religious beliefs and it is perfectly ok. Right?
I doubt that would hold up in Court.
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Old 04-09-2016, 08:46 AM
 
Location: Middle of nowhere
24,260 posts, read 14,203,370 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
Wholeheartedly agree. Claiming one's own religious belief is one thing, using religious belief to discriminate against other folks who don't share one's religious beliefs is another.

There has always been a carved out exception for religious organizations.

One of the reasons why Holly Hobby was a landmark decision was because the corporations named are not religious organizations.
And per the MS RFRA anyone can claim anything is a religious belief and the state can not compel them to act in violation of their beliefs nor prevent them from acting on those beliefs unless it can first show a compelling governmental interest in doing so.

You don't even need a holy book passage to claim a religious belief, nor a church statement, nor another living soul that believes the way you do.
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Old 04-09-2016, 08:46 AM
 
2,842 posts, read 2,328,064 times
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I've lived all over the US. America really is like many different countries put together. The South has it's own culture, values, foods, even language in some ways. It's very different from the East, the Midwest, the West and the West Coast. Religion plays a big role in Southern culture. I can see why people in that region are passing laws to "protect" their cultural identity. Frankly, I'm not surprised at all. That's the beauty of America though, you can move anywhere you like.

I personally prefer the true West. Places like CO, AZ, NM, UT, NV, MT, and WY. People in those states mostly just want to be left alone to do their own thing.
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Old 04-09-2016, 08:48 AM
 
Location: Middle of nowhere
24,260 posts, read 14,203,370 times
Reputation: 9895
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
If SCOTUS rules that to be a valid religious objection, yes. Good luck with that.

I doubt that would hold up in Court.
Per my state laws it only has to be a sincerely held religious belief, whether or not the exercise is compulsory or central to a larger system of religious belief.

As long as I say it is a sincerely held belief, then it is. Or do you want the government to decide what a sincerely held belief is?
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Old 04-09-2016, 08:49 AM
 
Location: *
13,242 posts, read 4,922,259 times
Reputation: 3461
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrose View Post
And per the MS RFRA anyone can claim anything is a religious belief and the state can not compel them to act in violation of their beliefs nor prevent them from acting on those beliefs unless it can first show a compelling governmental interest in doing so.

You don't even need a holy book passage to claim a religious belief, nor a church statement, nor another living soul that believes the way you do.
Perhaps ironically, I agree with the part where you "don't even need a holy book passage to claim a religious belief, nor a church statement, nor another living soul that believes the way you do."

The part I don't agree with is using one's religious belief to discriminate against other folks.
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Old 04-09-2016, 08:51 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,989 posts, read 44,804,275 times
Reputation: 13693
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
Wholeheartedly agree. Claiming one's own religious belief is one thing, using religious belief to discriminate against other folks who don't share one's religious beliefs is another.

There has always been a carved out exception for religious organizations.

One of the reasons why Holly Lobby was a landmark decision was because the corporations named are not religious organizations.
Have to disagree on that. Neither the Constitution's First Amendment nor state or federal RFRA laws limit the free exercise of religion to religious organizations.

I know, I know... DARN that evil Constitution!
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Old 04-09-2016, 08:51 AM
 
Location: *
13,242 posts, read 4,922,259 times
Reputation: 3461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spot View Post
I've lived all over the US. America really is like many different countries put together. The South has it's own culture, values, foods, even language in some ways. It's very different from the East, the Midwest, the West and the West Coast. Religion plays a big role in Southern culture. I can see why people in that region are passing laws to "protect" their cultural identity. Frankly, I'm not surprised at all. That's the beauty of America though, you can move anywhere you like.

I personally prefer the true West. Places like CO, AZ, NM, UT, NV, MT, and WY. People in those states mostly just want to be left alone to do their own thing.
I think I get what you're saying although the 'heritage not hate' schtick gets old.
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