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Old 04-15-2016, 08:49 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,552 posts, read 44,283,634 times
Reputation: 13506

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrose View Post
Care to try to answer the question with an answer instead of a question?

Do you believe that the 1st amendment rights are absolute?
You have to read the First Amendment to determine that:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."
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Old 04-15-2016, 08:53 AM
 
14,295 posts, read 9,632,106 times
Reputation: 4254
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javacoffee View Post
Nobody is refusing to serve homosexuals. It is about having the right to refuse certain requests made by homosexuals...or anyone else for that matter. Those decisions should remain with the business owner, not the customer and certainly not the government.
I agree, but the list for denying services would be a very short one.

Let's say you advertise as an outdoors and sporting events photographer and videographer. You may have filmed fishing or duck hunting, and filmed plants and wild animals in nature.

Let's say a man comes to your studio and wants you to film his wolf hunt, and film him skinning and ultimately mounting his wolf head trophy, as an instructional video for his blog or Facebook page.

If you are a dog lover and feel you would be revolted or even traumatized by this job, can you tell the man you'd rather not take on this job? Can you politely suggest he find another studio, or are you a slave to the general public and you must take on every job that comes your way?
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Old 04-15-2016, 08:58 AM
 
16,579 posts, read 20,611,433 times
Reputation: 26860
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrose View Post
You might want to look into the civil rights act and the reason for it when discussing businesses being able to serve whomever they wish.
I've given up on this. ^^^^ People prefer to remain willfully and painfully ignorant of the history of the civil rights movement, the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Supreme Court decisions holding it up as Constitutional.

There's no point in discussing a subject with someone who refuses to acknowledge anything but his or her uninformed opinion.
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Old 04-15-2016, 09:01 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,552 posts, read 44,283,634 times
Reputation: 13506
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
And what you're misunderstanding is that some of us think it's more important to do what's morally right than to follow only what's in the Constitution.
The mistake you're making is not understanding that morality is relative. For example, ISIL/ISIS believes that it's "moral" to behead Christians and drown them in cages, and many Muslim countries believe that it's "moral" to punish homosexuals with death..
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Old 04-15-2016, 09:06 AM
 
1,504 posts, read 844,647 times
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Not big on the politicalizing of gay issues....Not really being a champion of all the weird sexual issues that are pervasive in society these days...in fact deep down I am a red neck- BUT- No person has the right to harm any other person because they simply disagree with them or do not like them- No one has the right to inconvenience another through the denial of a service that the are willing to pay for- end of story.
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Old 04-15-2016, 09:09 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,552 posts, read 44,283,634 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
As you point out, not only is the poster trying to insert Pope Francis into the bakery/catering business, but he is intentionally and repeatedly telling only half the story. He clings to a single document (as he often does), but ignores what the Pope also said verbally about the general treatment of gay people.
Not true. I've repeatedly said that the businesses in question sell to and provide services for gay persons/couples with the only exception being goods/services requested for same sex wedding ceremonies.

There's that trademark liberal lack of critical thinking skills rearing its ugly head again: lack of ability to discern the difference between providing goods and services under any other circumstance, but drawing the line at becoming involved in SSM ceremonies.
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Old 04-15-2016, 09:13 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,552 posts, read 44,283,634 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Well, that's sort of like when I wonder how the Republicans keep saying they are a party of a "big tent", and yet they do virtually nothing of substance within their party to actually have a "big tent".
So... can you EXPLAIN why Obama and the Dems neglected to include LGBT as a federally protected class when they had the Presidency, House, and Senate in 2009-2011?
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Old 04-15-2016, 09:14 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,552 posts, read 44,283,634 times
Reputation: 13506
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh, so you finally admit that you don't feel that human rights are important.
What? I neither wrote nor ratified the Bill of Rights.
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Old 04-15-2016, 09:25 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,552 posts, read 44,283,634 times
Reputation: 13506
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrose View Post
You might want to look into the civil rights act and the reason for it when discussing businesses being able to serve whomever they wish.
Again... sexual orientation is not a federally protected class. Obama and the Dems had a chance to add that when they had the Presidency, House, and Senate from 2009 to 2011, but they did not do so.
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Old 04-15-2016, 09:26 AM
 
19,378 posts, read 12,029,585 times
Reputation: 26100
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrose View Post
So if I look at their book and point out this cake, they should make it for me.



The design is in their book they must not find that design offensive.


PS neither of the cake cases was about the design of the cake. Both couples were told that they could not buy ANY wedding cake in the bakery.

Except they are not buying it in the bakery like a batch of cookies, they are contracting to have it made for their wedding. We have no idea what specifications they may have requested, majority of people customize but that is not even relevant. It takes a lot of time and effort to make each specific cake, it isn't a factory job. A wedding cake is very personal and symbolic, like a wedding dress which also may just be used once at the ceremony.
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