Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Wages and benefits in this country are dropping like a ton of bricks. People across the board are feeling the pinch. If you aren't in the executive class, and you aren't, you're not gonna demand a damn thing and get it.
Agreed about wages and benefits. But that has nothing to do with what I said as it pertains to the individual.
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter
At best, you can put down a salary expectation when applying for a job, but that's usually just to see if you have a sense of humour. If the gig is paying 70K and you want 80K...good luck. Don't let the doorknob hit you where nature split you.
Depends on how good a worker you are. And not necessarily just when applying for a job but asking for a raise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter
So all that blabbing you're doing sounds great, but since even you don't believe it, don't waste your time trying to convince me of it
Truth is treason to people like you
Last edited by CaseyB; 04-13-2016 at 09:18 AM..
Reason: personal
And what jobs have you been at where your skills are so valuable that you can negotiate. Did you negotiate your benefits as well. You can doubt all you want about unions but I don't lie about what our benefits are. Why would I.
I'm an IT consultant for Dell. I've negotiated salary at literally every IT job I've ever had.
My dad is a GM/UAW retiree, as are 3 of my uncles - so I'm FAR from anti-union.
I like freedom, though, so people should be free to join, or not, a union as they see fit. If you choose NOT to be a member of the union, there should be no way in hell that you should be forced to pay dues. Further, you should not receive any of the union's protection or benefits.
In my working life, I worked for:
Union, closed shop
Union, open shop, no "agency fee"
Union, open shop, required to pay agency fee
Non-union, right to work state
and
Non-union, non right to work state
The union jobs were all for the same union, but different locals.
At retirement, those many years of union membership turned out to be absolutely worthless. All those months of paying 2 hours pay for "membership benefits" returned exactly NOTHING! I expected that, since the membership during the working years returned one annual banquet of rubber chicken and over-cooked vegetables, while listening to the union "leadership" extolling the wonders of the union movement.
Looking back, the non-union employers treated their employees just as good if not better than the union employers did. Actually, they HAD to, because they knew that their employees could pack up their tools and leave at a moments notice if they got angry enough. The employees knew that they didn't have to worry about picking up the slack for the union-protected "dead wood" employees that the boss could not get rid of.
Yes, way back when a few railroad employees got together and formed a union to fight the bosses there was a real need for such.
Now, not so much.
Yeah, I been there, did that, didn't leave with a good impression.
I am not at all in favor of "closed shop" or "agency fee" union contracts.
I am in favor of "Right To Work" laws. Such laws are NOT always "right to work for less" or "right to work for free" situations as the unionists say. In fact, non-union employers usually do their best to match or exceed the pay and benefits of the union shops, in an attempt to prevent the union from organizing their employees. Another fact, based on personal experience, is that certifying a union to "represent" you WILL cost you money (union dues) and most often WILL create an adversarial relationship between your employer and the union members. It often is not worth it!
]I'm an IT consultant for Dell. I've negotiated salary at literally every IT job I've ever had.[/b]
My dad is a GM/UAW retiree, as are 3 of my uncles - so I'm FAR from anti-union.
I like freedom, though, so people should be free to join, or not, a union as they see fit. If you choose NOT to be a member of the union, there should be no way in hell that you should be forced to pay dues. Further, you should not receive any of the union's protection or benefits.
Why is this even a question?
You are a highly qualified individual who can negotiate your terms. But most can't. Do you think grocery workers and etc can negotiate their pay. Of course not. They just wouldn't be hired.
You are a highly qualified individual who can negotiate your terms. But most can't. Do you think grocery workers and etc can negotiate their pay. Of course not. They just wouldn't be hired.
Yes, I am.
I'm not Superman, though - anyone with average intelligence can do the same things I've done.
Grocery workers get paid what the market deems they are worth. If they aren't happy with their current pay, find a grocer that pays more. If no grocer out there pays more, you're being paid what the market says you're worth.
Again, I'm not anti-union, I just don't feel anyone should be forced to be a member of one. Further, non-members shouldn't be forced to pay dues and the union shouldn't be forced to provide non-members with any protections or benefits. Easy, peasy.
As REDRAVEN noted, the very existence of a UNION drives up wages and benefits for the entire workforce in a given industry. That is reason enough for them to exist and completely justifies non members having to pay dues. Please not that Unions are not confined to blue collar workers. Even medical doctors have one. It is called the American Medical Association and has effectively supported MD's wages by limiting the number of doctors certified in the US for a hundred years.
"As REDRAVEN noted, the very existence of a UNION drives up wages and benefits for the entire workforce in a given industry. That is reason enough for them to exist and completely justifies non members having to pay dues."
THAT is all you got from my post? You completely missed the last two paragraphs?
Suffice it to say I disagree completely with your conclusion! A logical carry-out would mean that the workers in a non-union shop should pay dues to the union at a union shop in the same industry because they get the union wages and benefits! That is ridiculous!
Please, do NOT use me to bolster a pro-union position!
You want to the union negotiated pay, benefits and representation but you don't like the idea of having to pay for it.
So who are the free loading parasites in this scenario?
Now if you are willing to take less pay, fewer or no benefits, and no one to stand up for you for any disciplinary actions by your employer, I would fully support your right to not pay union dues. Oh, but I can just imagine your beatching if that were the situation.
Who said everyone wants? I certainly do not want any union speaking for me, I am capable of doing that myself and negotiating my own compensation. The only thing a union place does is prevent others from negotiating a better deal, oh yes, make sure everyone is "equal" meaning a hot runner is considered equal, or even less than some mediocre worker all due to time in the job.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
