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What if the couple were a brother and sister they'd been serving for years then found out they were going to have a "spiritual" wedding? Should or could any baker, religious or not refuse?
What about a cousin couple in a state where it's still illegal to get married? (Yes, there are states where it's legal, and states where it's illegal)
Before anyone freaks out, the examples of incest is fair because... "you love who you love", "consenting adults", and "it doesn't affect anyone's else's marriage", and for older couples post menopausal women wont get pregnant.
BTW, don't get me wrong... I'm with most people and wish religious people lighten up!... about a lot of things!
Does the bakery sell wedding cakes?
If so the persons reason for purchasing that cake don't matter. If I want to purchase the cake to throw in the dumpster, or for a food fight, or to drop on my cousins head, it doesn't matter. They are selling a product, what is done with that product after it leaves the store is none of their business.
If I want to buy a steak to put on my eye, the butcher can not refuse to sell me the steak because he feels that it is supposed to be grilled.
If I buy a butter knife to use as a screwdriver, the metalsmith can not refuse to sell to me because he sees that use as sacrilege.
If I buy cheese to squish between my toes, the cheese maker can not refuse to sell it to me because it disrespects his product.
If a business is selling a product, and I have cash to buy that product then what I do with it after purchase is none of their business.
Bakery usually asks for the name of the bride and groom/brides/grooms.
Once the work is contracted and done they would not be able to take the cake back. Of course customer could sue if that was done. Where are some of you getting such out-there ideas based on a few simple cases that are very clear cut.
Yes the cases were clear cut. The bakeries were in violation of the laws of the states they were operating in.
Only if they are trying to get married IN the bakery.
A bar can refuse service to someone that is drunk IN the bar. They can not refuse service because the person is going to get drunk later at a different location.
A store can refuse service to someone that is disruptive IN the store, not because they are going to be disruptive later at another location.
I'm not so sure about that. I remember some people not being allowed into a restaurant/bar because they were part of a group that was having problems with the owner's brother. That could certainly extend to behavior that was going down later, like a group or person planning on having an event that is known to be disruptive to the neighborhood.
What any of this has to do with contracting for services and religion is lost on me.
If so the persons reason for purchasing that cake don't matter. If I want to purchase the cake to throw in the dumpster, or for a food fight, or to drop on my cousins head, it doesn't matter. They are selling a product, what is done with that product after it leaves the store is none of their business.
If I want to buy a steak to put on my eye, the butcher can not refuse to sell me the steak because he feels that it is supposed to be grilled.
If I buy a butter knife to use as a screwdriver, the metalsmith can not refuse to sell to me because he sees that use as sacrilege.
If I buy cheese to squish between my toes, the cheese maker can not refuse to sell it to me because it disrespects his product.
If a business is selling a product, and I have cash to buy that product then what I do with it after purchase is none of their business.
Are any of those examples forbidden in someone's bible?
Well... ha ha... you never know!
Still, lawsuits or not, I wouldn't want someone participating or baking for my wedding if they were that uncomfortable, but that's just me. If I had a relative who didn't like my fiance' I wouldn't invite them.
Btw, just thinking how a mere 7 or 8 years ago our very liberal President Obama was against same sex marriage. His view started "evolving" after that. Will there be some people have a bad view of him a hundred years from now because he was once a bigot?
Yes the cases were clear cut. The bakeries were in violation of the laws of the states they were operating in.
Correct. Yet posters keep coming up with silly scenarios and ridiculing religious beliefs because sugary confections are involved. So it's about the cake and sprinkles and not the principle, and religious beliefs can not be a real thing.
Are any of those examples forbidden in someone's bible?
Well... ha ha... you never know!
Still, lawsuits or not, I wouldn't want someone participating or baking for my wedding if they were that uncomfortable, but that's just me. If I had a relative who didn't like my fiance' I wouldn't invite them.
Btw, just thinking how a mere 7 or 8 years ago our very liberal President Obama was against same sex marriage. His view started "evolving" after that. Will there be some people have a bad view of him a hundred years from now because he was once a bigot?
How far does that go? Do you poll the person making your burger at lunch to get his opinion of your life?
Do you poll the car dealership? The guy at the lumber yard? The Butcher?
The point is that this issue has been settled many times, and every time it is decided that you can not use religious belief to deny service to people in a public accommodation. There are years of legal precedent on the topic.
I don't care how people view Obama, I didn't vote for him either time.
Are any of those examples forbidden in someone's bible?
Well... ha ha... you never know!
Still, lawsuits or not, I wouldn't want someone participating or baking for my wedding if they were that uncomfortable, but that's just me. If I had a relative who didn't like my fiance' I wouldn't invite them.
Btw, just thinking how a mere 7 or 8 years ago our very liberal President Obama was against same sex marriage. His view started "evolving" after that. Will there be some people have a bad view of him a hundred years from now because he was once a bigot?
Serving a cake made with butter (dairy) at an event with meat is prohibited by the Bible. Are bakers asking for a menu to make sure that everything is Kosher?
Serving a cake made with butter (dairy) at an event with meat is prohibited by the Bible. Are bakers asking for a menu to make sure that everything is Kosher?
Heck, do they ask if the couple getting married have had premarital sex or were previously divorced? Both no nos in the bible.
Good point. So the bakers bake the cake, and another service is created...the wedding cake decorator. Should satisfy everyone. I like it.
Why? The baker can already refuse to decorate it in a way that they do not offer. If they do not make cat cakes they do not have to make cat cakes. If they do not make rainbow cakes, they do not have to make rainbow cakes.
Both cases so far have not been about the decorations, but about who the cake was for.
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