Do We Need to Destroy the GOP ... In Order to Save It? (Congress, wages)
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IMO the GOP should move away from social conservatives and capture the big, gaping hole in the middle vacated by the Democrats going so far left over the last few cycles. Fiscal conservative, social moderate. There are a LOT of us.
This.
The whole party has alienated itself by garnering the reputation of being socially backwards.
Pandering to the religious right has destroyed so much support, because a lot of educated people can't associate themselves with their nonsense anymore and be made to look stupid.
I was a republican my whole life but this dumb 'Merka and Jebus! yokel base that they have chosen to pander to is stomach-turning.
There's nothing wrong with being religious and there's nothing wrong with conservative social values. Neither should be the base of the platform for a major political party that has any hopes of winning.
The democrats are so insane that it should be easy to beat them, but instead the republican party acts like a bunch of ass clowns.
General Westmoreland once famously said, of a Vietnam Village, that "we destroyed that village in order to save it" or words to that effect. It seems the same process is well in effect in the GOP. And this is not the first time it's happened. A bit of history is in order.
The first iteration of the GOP was the Federalist Party. That party elected President Washington in 1788 and President Adams in 1796. After Adams failed to win reelection in 1800 the party fizzled. The Whigs organized in the early 1830's as a counterweight to President Jackson. It also flamed out quickly; in the early 1850's, after Millard Fillmore was unable to fill even Zachary Taylor's small shoes. The Republican Party organized in or about 1854 in Ripon, Wisconsin, as an idealistic, antislavery party. It's first standard-bearer, John Fremont, lost the 1856 election. Abraham Lincoln, nominated on the third ballot of a contested convention. did better. The South didn't enjoy that surprise and bolted the Union.
The GOP has had other, more recent near-death experiences. In 1936, in the midst of the Great Depression with a charismatic and phony FDR as President, Alf Landon managed to collar only Vermont and one other state. I always forget if that was Kansas or Maine but it makes little difference. That wiped out the truly old, laissez-fair Republicans. The corportatist Republicans that replaced them were more or less non-ideological. They managed to elect only Eisenhower in 1952 (and that one as a war hero) and Nixon in 1968 (in a bitter time of disorders, antiwar ferment, crime and racism). Ford was, of course, never elected. That version of the GOP was seen driving away in the smog over Watergate in 1972, made official by the disastrous 1974 elections.
That paved the way for Ronald Reagan and his neo-conservatives. It is significant that Reagan's roots were as a liberal Democrat. In hindsight, while Republicans pine for the "next Reagan" he was personally magnetic, and that contributed to the size of his two victories. The corporatist Republicans were back in control for Bush I and Bush II's elections of 1988, 2000 and 2004, as well as the McCain and Romney candidacies.
Now, Ted Cruz, a quality candidate and one of surprising duration given his lack of favor with the relatively lazy and unimaginative Republicans in the Senate and the House appears to have, at best, a narrow path to the nomination. It is hard to fight a demagogue. Since he and his supporters are principled, many of them will no doubt vote for Hillary or cast a blank ballot. I am waffling between those two options. In any event the GOP is headed to a defeat and implosion on the scale of the Federalist, Whig, Depression and Watergate debacles in this country, and Canada's recent destruction of the Progressive-Conservative Party. The country needs two parties.
I argue that a new or reconstituted party must arise from the ashes, one shorn of the "get along to go along" philosophy of the likes of Boehner and McConnell. This party will be led by bright, young, aggressive leaders such as Cruz, Rubio, Ryan and Walker.
A few points in your astute post:
FYI, the US lost the Vietnam war ... and Westmoreland was a chief architect of that debacle. I can honestly say that I've never seen him quoted in any positive manner before in the last 40 years.
FYI, the Federalist Party died out around 1815 because of their support for New England secession, not because of Adams' failure to be re-elected. The Whig Party developed in the mid 1820s in opposition to the Jacksonian Democrats, and there's not a straight descent from the Federalists at all. The Republican Party emerged in the 1850s because of sectional conflict over slavery. It's members were drawn from the ranks of Free Soilers, Know Nothings, and northern and western Whigs. It was essentially a sectional party from the 1850s through the 1960s as it had no support in the South until Nixon and his cronies welcomed die-hard segregationists and racists into the party in the 1970s.
The Republican Party has never been "laissez-faire". It has always favored big business over workers and small businesses, but in the past it also supported other progressive ideas such as public education, conservation, etc. The Republican Party has also always been willing to put corporate interests above individual rights.
Ted Cruz is NOT a "quality" candidate. He's a big reason that Trump will be the GOP nominee. I have never, ever seen/read of/heard of any candidate for POTUS as reviled by his fellow party members -- and his fellow senators -- as Cruz ... and this was even before the campaign became Cruz vs Trump. On a scale of 1-10 for slimy politicians, even the slimy politicians themselves think Cruz is -15 at least.
Oh, I do hope you and your fellow Righties go out after the election and create your own Super Rightwing political party. The self-segregation of the right wing nutjobs into their own un-electable party would be the best thing to happen to US politics in at least a quarter of a century. The rest of us could then figure out how to start fixing the many problems created/exacerbated by the "my way or the highway" Righties' obstructionism.
This.
The whole party has alienated itself by garnering the reputation of being socially backwards.
Pandering to the religious right has destroyed so much support, because a lot of educated people can't associate themselves with their nonsense anymore and be made to look stupid.
I was a republican my whole life but this dumb 'Merka and Jebus! yokel base that they have chosen to pander to is stomach-turning.
There's nothing wrong with being religious and there's nothing wrong with conservative social values. Neither should be the base of the platform for a major political party that has any hopes of winning.
The democrats are so insane that it should be easy to beat them, but instead the republican party acts like a bunch of ass clowns.
Terrible.
This is what drive me and most people my age (mid-30's) to the Dems. We are all fiscal moderates to lean conservatives, Blue lives matter fans of police but the big government social conservatives.... Lets just call it for what is the social conservatives are BIG Government, the whole making medical decisions (birth control, abortion) peaking into bedrooms (same sex relations, pre marital sex, sodomy in general) its way too much government involved in ones lives and the irony is they claim to rally against big government
As i stated in a previous thread I started about the gop 3-legged stool they want to spy on people to a level that makes N. Korea's seem minor.
Also, the fact that the GOP which OP just and FYI is usually led by Cruz threaten to shut down the government whenever they can;t get their way it the equivalent to temper tantrums, not exactly mature.
I always advocated the the GOP needs to be destroyed al-la 1964 destruction of Barry Goldwater. The GOP would've never won in the 1980's or hell Nixon might not of had a 49 state landslide had it not been for TRUE soul searching after that debacle. Realizing that the people have changed and some adjustments while remaining true to principals goes a long way, not the my way or bust. As the saying goes Reagan would be a democrat with the way the GOP acts today.
I also believe that if Ford didn't pardon Nixon the GOP could've held the house through the 70's as well as the 80's but that's just my opinion.
General Westmoreland once famously said, of a Vietnam Village, that "we destroyed that village in order to save it" or words to that effect. It seems the same process is well in effect in the GOP. And this is not the first time it's happened. A bit of history is in order.
The first iteration of the GOP was the Federalist Party. That party elected President Washington in 1788 and President Adams in 1796. After Adams failed to win reelection in 1800 the party fizzled. The Whigs organized in the early 1830's as a counterweight to President Jackson. It also flamed out quickly; in the early 1850's, after Millard Fillmore was unable to fill even Zachary Taylor's small shoes. The Republican Party organized in or about 1854 in Ripon, Wisconsin, as an idealistic, antislavery party. It's first standard-bearer, John Fremont, lost the 1856 election. Abraham Lincoln, nominated on the third ballot of a contested convention. did better. The South didn't enjoy that surprise and bolted the Union.
The GOP has had other, more recent near-death experiences. In 1936, in the midst of the Great Depression with a charismatic and phony FDR as President, Alf Landon managed to collar only Vermont and one other state. I always forget if that was Kansas or Maine but it makes little difference. That wiped out the truly old, laissez-fair Republicans. The corportatist Republicans that replaced them were more or less non-ideological. They managed to elect only Eisenhower in 1952 (and that one as a war hero) and Nixon in 1968 (in a bitter time of disorders, antiwar ferment, crime and racism). Ford was, of course, never elected. That version of the GOP was seen driving away in the smog over Watergate in 1972, made official by the disastrous 1974 elections.
That paved the way for Ronald Reagan and his neo-conservatives. It is significant that Reagan's roots were as a liberal Democrat. In hindsight, while Republicans pine for the "next Reagan" he was personally magnetic, and that contributed to the size of his two victories. The corporatist Republicans were back in control for Bush I and Bush II's elections of 1988, 2000 and 2004, as well as the McCain and Romney candidacies.
Now, Ted Cruz, a quality candidate and one of surprising duration given his lack of favor with the relatively lazy and unimaginative Republicans in the Senate and the House appears to have, at best, a narrow path to the nomination. It is hard to fight a demagogue. Since he and his supporters are principled, many of them will no doubt vote for Hillary or cast a blank ballot. I am waffling between those two options. In any event the GOP is headed to a defeat and implosion on the scale of the Federalist, Whig, Depression and Watergate debacles in this country, and Canada's recent destruction of the Progressive-Conservative Party. The country needs two parties.
I argue that a new or reconstituted party must arise from the ashes, one shorn of the "get along to go along" philosophy of the likes of Boehner and McConnell. This party will be led by bright, young, aggressive leaders such as Cruz, Rubio, Ryan and Walker.
"Now, Ted Cruz, a quality candidate and one of surprising duration given his lack of favor with the relatively lazy and unimaginative Republicans"
You sound VERY biased. Therefore I discount ANYTHING you say.
I believe that most remaining Federalists became Whigs when the party organized. I'll check this out when I come back from New York later.
Am I supposed to be impressed you're in New York at the moment? Uh, I'm in Tallinn. Do you know where that is? How old are you anyways?
Anyways, no need for research unless for your own edification. I, and I'd say pretty much every other reasonably educated American, is already very familiar with the history you attempted to explain.[/quote]Your insults aside, Talin is the capital of Estonia. I didn't google that either.
IMO the GOP should move away from social conservatives and capture the big, gaping hole in the middle vacated by the Democrats going so far left over the last few cycles. Fiscal conservative, social moderate. There are a LOT of us.
I agree. Stick with fiscal conservatism, international non-interventionism, secure our borders and dump the religious mythology.
Neither party has represented middle class Americans for decades. The current Republican establishment represents the top 10%, income-wise. The Dems represent the top 1% and the bottom 20%
If the Republican establishment thwarts Trump, they'll go the way of the Whigs. A new party of the middle class will emerge.
Neither party has represented middle class Americans for decades. The current Republican establishment represents the top 10%, income-wise. The Dems represent the top 1% and the bottom 20%
If the Republican establishment thwarts Trump, they'll go the way of the Whigs. A new party of the middle class will emerge.
Well what do you expect? These two parties have to get their money somewhere. After all the, given the huge bailouts the top 5% feel they are just as entitled to your tax money as the bottom 10%.
No we just need to destroy it. There's no need to save it. Democrats are just smarter. We don't need Republicans.
Darn. You beat me to it.
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