Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 05-02-2016, 09:32 PM
 
32,059 posts, read 15,040,845 times
Reputation: 13664

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by windowtreatments View Post
Sadly we've come to point that we can no longer trust any federal agency.

Icegate: Now NSIDC Caught Tampering With Climate Records
Tell this to the poor polar bears
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-02-2016, 11:35 PM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,023,289 times
Reputation: 17864
Quote:
Originally Posted by odanny View Post
I never said we could completely replace fossil fuels, not once. The idea is to gradually increase the production of renewable resources. Even if renewable resources increase exponentially there is no guarantee that demand for base power won't also increase exponentially.
The need for more fossil fuel capacity does not increase exponentially, it increases based on demand because we can increase the supply of energy at will. Any increase in renewable does reduce the need for capacity, if you add 1000 gigawatts of solar capacity you still need 1000 gigawatts of fossil fuel capacity that can do it's own.

If you want simple analogy if you were buying a car and the requirements were that you can drive it for 24 hours you'd buy a gasoline powered car, you wouldn't go out buy a second more expensive electric powered car that can only be driven for the first few hours and then hop in your gasoline powered car for the other 20 hours.

Quote:
What you seemingly fail to understand is this is an evolving industry.
I don't fail to understand anything, what you need to understand is the reduction in cost for these solar/wind systems combined with the storage costs would have to be perhaps 5% of fossil fuels before they could fully replace them.


Quote:
Look to Germany, Holland and Denmark for examples.
Not sure about Holland but Germany and Denmark have the highest electric rates in the Western world, somewhere around 35 cents per kWh. There is a renewable energy tax on power in Germany that is more that some of the retail rates for electric in this country.

Let's look at Spain shall we, this was model for industry a few years back. Can you say the word Bankrupt?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-02-2016, 11:41 PM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,023,289 times
Reputation: 17864
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliftonpdx View Post

Though I will say your post does show that you don't understand how solar and wind energy works, ....
Explain how you would replace coal and gas with solar and wind, the world awaits your answer.

Quote:
...it's Jan 1st in the northeast US. The temperature is minus 10, it's snowing blocking what little sun there is, very little wind and as 7 PM approaches electric is now hitting a peak demand record.
What is your plan?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-02-2016, 11:58 PM
 
2,464 posts, read 1,285,564 times
Reputation: 668
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
Explain how you would replace coal and gas with solar and wind, the world awaits your answer.



What is your plan?
I don't have a plan, if I did I wouldn't be on the internet talking to you about it, I would be talking to my shareholders on how we hit another billion. Though to be fair, I am also not designing the next billion dollar app either, but that doesn't mean apps don't exist because I am not working on it.

But like I said, someone who has "coal" in their name probably thinks coal is the only fuel we should be using because it is far superior to any other form of fuel.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-03-2016, 06:07 AM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,023,289 times
Reputation: 17864
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliftonpdx View Post

But like I said, someone who has "coal" in their name probably thinks coal is the only fuel we should be using because it is far superior to any other form of fuel.
Don't try and put words into my mouth. What I said was natural gas is the only thing that can replace coal. I went onto clarify that with technologies that may potentially replace it far off in the future. I've also carefully explained why solar and wind cannot and will not replace coal and gas.

If you have anything to add or comment about what has been explained to you I'm listening.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-03-2016, 06:17 AM
 
30,058 posts, read 18,652,475 times
Reputation: 20862
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliftonpdx View Post
I don't have a plan, if I did I wouldn't be on the internet talking to you about it, I would be talking to my shareholders on how we hit another billion. Though to be fair, I am also not designing the next billion dollar app either, but that doesn't mean apps don't exist because I am not working on it.

But like I said, someone who has "coal" in their name probably thinks coal is the only fuel we should be using because it is far superior to any other form of fuel.

They already have a "plan". It is called Mid American Energy, a subsidiary of Berkshire Hathaway (Buffet). I know the head of Berkshire's energy wing and they are very forward thinking regarding seeking alternative sources of energy, while not abandoning current sources. Over 20% of the electricity in our state now comes from wind as a result of these efforts. Does Mid America use coal? Yes! But they are SLOWLY transitioning to increase the percentage of wind power. Nuclear has been explored, but the cost and regulations make it less appealing currently than wind. Solar, of course, requires large tracts of land. Why waste farmland on solar panels?

I love to see all the wind turbines around our state churning out electricity. Some say they are ugly, but I really enjoy thier appearance. Those who say they kill too many birds are nuts. I am big environmentalist and have built wildlife habitats on my farm for local wildlife and migrating birds. A quick view of the wind turbines shows that they are fractionally in migratory bird pathways.

Of course we need coal (and probably always will to some extent). It is absurd to bankrupt the coal industry will pursuing alternative energy. Of course we can do both- use coal and seek to expand the componant of alternative energy (wind, tides, hydroelectric, nuclear, solar).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-03-2016, 06:34 AM
 
2,464 posts, read 1,285,564 times
Reputation: 668
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
Don't try and put words into my mouth. What I said was natural gas is the only thing that can replace coal. I went onto clarify that with technologies that may potentially replace it far off in the future. I've also carefully explained why solar and wind cannot and will not replace coal and gas.

If you have anything to add or comment about what has been explained to you I'm listening.
How can I put words in your mouth when your response is what I said, you think coal is superior, which doesn't shock me because you have "coal" in your name. I would highly doubt you would be an all for solar guy.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-03-2016, 07:07 AM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,023,289 times
Reputation: 17864
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
Of course we need coal (and probably always will to some extent). It is absurd to bankrupt the coal industry will pursuing alternative energy. Of course we can do both- use coal and seek to expand the componant of alternative energy (wind, tides, hydroelectric, nuclear, solar).
You can only expand this so much before you start driving up the cost of electric from fossil fuels. A great deal of the cost for electric is the capital investment to build the plant before you produce any electric, the more they run the less it costs per kWh. When they build a coal plant the expectation is it will run near capacity for the next 60 or 70 years. This long lifespan combined with the cheap cost of fuel is what makes electric from coal so cheap.

The typical role in the past for natural gas was intermediary and peaking plants. While the gas itself may be more expensive they are cheaper to run than coal plant in this role.

Those capital investment costs do not go away when you are adding redundant solar and wind because of the issues I have outlined. In addition to the cost for adding redundant solar and wind the cost per kWh from fossil fuels necessarily rises.

This goes back to my analogy of needing a car that can run for 24 hours. You will need to purchase a gasoline vehicle to do this. Buying a second car that is powered by electric that is only going to get you through the first four hours of your trip doubles your capital investment.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-03-2016, 07:08 AM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,023,289 times
Reputation: 17864
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliftonpdx View Post
How can I put words in your mouth when your response is what I said, you think coal is superior, which doesn't shock me because you have "coal" in your name. I would highly doubt you would be an all for solar guy.
If you have anything to add or comment about what has been explained to you I'm listening.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-03-2016, 07:45 AM
 
19,717 posts, read 10,109,755 times
Reputation: 13074
Quote:
Originally Posted by natalie469 View Post
Tell this to the poor polar bears
Nothing wrong with the polar bears.
" In Davis Strait, between Greenland and Baffin Island, the polar bear population has grown from 900 animals in the late 1970s to around 2,100 today. In Foxe Basin — a portion of northern Hudson Bay — a population that was estimated to be 2,300 in the early 2000s now stands at 2,570. And in specific areas of western Hudson Bay, the most-studied, most-photographed group of bears on Earth seems to have been on a slow but steady increase since in the 1970s"
From Canadian Geography magazine
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:10 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top