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Old 05-08-2016, 05:32 PM
 
Location: Midwest
38,496 posts, read 25,753,611 times
Reputation: 10789

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
I said yearly Flu, not yearly others but that Nursing Home will want him to get all those others, and be up to date on whatever the CDC says, including 10 year TD. That one is absurd at that age.
Why?
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Old 05-08-2016, 05:34 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
37,029 posts, read 41,087,048 times
Reputation: 44970
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
Yes, I absolutely would prefer to treat flu with herbs and I did prefer to treat intestinal illness such as rotavirus with breastfeeding That does not make me anti-mainstream medicine by any means. As I've stated numerous times, I find value in both conventional and alternative health methods.
This family relied on herbs and ended up with a dead child.

Quote:
Maybe. I read the article and from what I gathered the author of the article took info from their website and wrote an article. The conditions and the test that was used to detect bacteria were far from optimal and the ME was advised not to use the test results as any sort of proof of anything.
Unless you think someone is making up the news reports, the information that Hib was discussed in the autopsy results came from the Stephan family. Since that report is not favorable to the parents, I cannot believe they would just make it up.

Quote:
Are you saying that the ex ME lied under oath and committed perjury? Are you saying that you, a random internet poster knows more about what was in the autopsy then the former Chief ME, one of the top experts in Canada in her field?

Googled it and not finding anything on what you are claiming.
Of course you couldn't find it.

http://ezinearticles.com/?Pneumonia-...eek&id=4303374

"Here is an important question clinicians need to ask. When can you have a pneumonia and not see it on a chest x-ray? You can have a patient who is clinically sick because of a pneumonia, but when you do an x-ray you just don't see it there. There are three answers.

One is dehydration. A patient who is dry will not waste water on hydration of a lung that is infected. So, as we talked about under working up a patient who is dehydrated for hyponatremia, when you size up a patient with pneumonia who is dehydrated, it is valid for you to make the diagnosis of pneumonia without seeing it on the x-ray. You would put in your notes that the patient is clinically dehydrated, and I am confident that when hydrated the next day, and we again x-ray, a pneumonia will become apparent."

If the ex-ME did not address Ezekiel's dehydration and its effect on an X-ray diagnosis of pneumonia, she was lying by omission.

Quote:
The case was all about whether or not they took him to the doctor in a timely manner. If he did in fact have HIB then he could have been treated if they had taken him to the doctor sooner. They didn't and that is what the jury found them guilty of. The case has nothing to do with vaccines.
The jury verdict has nothing to do with vaccines. The fact remains that it is highly probable that Ezekiel died from a vaccine preventable disease.
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Old 05-08-2016, 05:40 PM
 
26,660 posts, read 13,676,529 times
Reputation: 19118
Quote:
Originally Posted by jojajn View Post
If vaccination was not an issue, why are you trying so hard to convince us that this child did not die from the vaccine preventable form of meningitis (HIB)?

I'm trying to present that facts of the case as presented by the media covering the trial and to refute the false claims that this case was about vaccines because it wasn't. And its true that we don't know if the boy's illness could have been prevented via vaccination. Maybe it could have, maybe it couldn't have. Either way, that is not what this case was about.


Why are you trying to make this case about vaccines?
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Old 05-08-2016, 05:46 PM
 
Location: Midwest
38,496 posts, read 25,753,611 times
Reputation: 10789
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
I'm trying to present that facts of the case as presented by the media covering the trial and to refute the false claims that this case was about vaccines because it wasn't. And its true that we don't know if the boy's illness could have been prevented via vaccination. Maybe it could have, maybe it couldn't have. Either way, that is not what this case was about.


Why are you trying to make this case about vaccines?
Because that child would not have died under the care of idiotic parents if he had been vaccinated against bacterial meningitis. If those parents want to use primitive medicine for their children, they should move to a region of the world that still believes in witch doctors.

If parents do not know how to take proper care of their children when they become ill, they should at the very least vaccinate them.
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Old 05-08-2016, 05:52 PM
 
26,660 posts, read 13,676,529 times
Reputation: 19118
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
This family relied on herbs and ended up with a dead child.
I don't know why everything has to be so black and white with you. Sometimes the use of herbs is appropriate treatment and sometimes it's not. There is a time and place for alternative methods and there is a time and place for conventional methods. I would guess that most people would have taken their child to the doctor when they heard the term "meningitis" being used as a possibility (by their nurse friend) as well as the stiffness that the boy had in his body. They didn't and that is most likely why the jury found them guilty.


Quote:
Unless you think someone is making up the news reports, the information that Hib was discussed in the autopsy results came from the Stephan family. Since that report is not favorable to the parents, I cannot believe they would just make it up.
Well, we are talking about "Health Nut News" and "Respectful Insolence" and considering they are the only two reporting this I don't find it to be the most credible tip. Nothing in any of the news reports covering the trial mentioned HIB at all. Nothing covering the ME's testimony. Nothing.


Quote:
If the ex-ME did not address Ezekiel's dehydration and its effect on an X-ray diagnosis of pneumonia, she was lying by omission.
We have no idea if she did or did not mention any of that because we only get a limited view of the testimony in the courtroom. I would think that the prosecution would have brought it up in questioning if she didn't mention it. Don't you?

Quote:
The jury verdict has nothing to do with vaccines. The fact remains that it is highly probable that Ezekiel died from a vaccine preventable disease.
Maybe, maybe not. Even if he didn't get the vaccine and even if he definitely had HIB then he could have been treated via antibiotics at the hospital if they had gotten him there sooner and that is why the case is not about vaccines but rather about the failure of the parents to seek treatment sooner then they did.
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Old 05-08-2016, 05:52 PM
 
Location: Midwest
38,496 posts, read 25,753,611 times
Reputation: 10789
Parents face jail for not vaccinating their kids

Quote:
Scores of grumbling parents facing a threat of jail lined up at a courthouse Saturday to either prove that their school-age kids already had their required vaccinations or see that the youngsters submitted to the needle.
The get-tough policy in the Washington suburbs of Prince George’s County was one of the strongest efforts made by any U.S. school system to ensure its youngsters receive their required immunizations.
Parents face jail for not vaccinating kids - Health - Children's health | NBC News
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Old 05-08-2016, 05:58 PM
 
Location: Midwest
38,496 posts, read 25,753,611 times
Reputation: 10789
Some good points in this opinion piece.

Quote:
Your family's right to be sick ends where public health begins.
Quote:
Prohibitionist John Finch once said, "Your right to swing your arm leaves off where my right not to have my nose struck begins." For infectious disease, we could reformulate that to: "Your right to be sick ends where my right to be healthy begins."
Quote:
Measles is perhaps the most infectious human disease. Virus particles can remain in the air for up to two hours after an infected person leaves. And measles is not a minor infection. The World Health Organization (WHO) reports that before widespread vaccination began in 1980, 2.6 million people a year died from measles. About 400 people a day still do.
Quote:
Put simply, no person has the right to threaten the safety of his community. Like drunken drivers, the unvaccinated pose an imminent danger to others.
Jail 'anti-vax' parents: Column
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Old 05-08-2016, 07:57 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,466,787 times
Reputation: 14692
Quote:
Originally Posted by jojajn View Post
Some good points in this opinion piece.








Jail 'anti-vax' parents: Column

I think parents who don't want to vaccinate should have to live in communities that don't vaccinate. That way the only ones they risk are themselves and their children. You just don't have the right to compromise someone else's health. All one need do is look at life before vaccines to see that they have done a world of good.


I have a dd who has herpetic whitloe and if she ever got chicken pox it would be very serious. When she was about 9 months old several moms at my church decided to have a chicken pox party with a sick child and expose their kids and then brought them to Sunday school. I was FURIOUS and left as soon as I found out praying all the while that she was not exposed. I'm still angry when I think about it. What gave them the right to play with my dd's life? We stayed away from church for a few weeks and fortunately she didn't get chicken pox. She got the vaccine as soon as she turned 1.


What's really funny is these same moms were upset with me for brining her to church and insisted that we leave when I brought her when she was healing from an outbreak (her outbreaks were bad and it would take several days for the sores to heal completely). She's not contagious during the healing phase. I even brought a doctors note one Sunday but they didn't believe the note. Not surprisingly she's an atheist. She faced more rejection at church from anti vaccinating moms than she did anywhere else. The school never sent her home even during outbreaks (it's as contagious as a cold sore because it is the virus that causes cold sores. Dd just can't fight the virus so she gets sores all over her face, neck, chest and hands).

Last edited by Ivorytickler; 05-08-2016 at 08:09 PM..
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Old 05-08-2016, 08:04 PM
eok
 
6,684 posts, read 4,232,392 times
Reputation: 8520
Quote:
Originally Posted by jojajn View Post

The problem there was that the school district allowed the kids to attend school unvaccinated, and didn't keep properly organized vaccination records. They should not have been allowed to use a threat of jail to correct their own records. Instead, they should have organized their records first, then demanded immediate vaccinations under the threat of expulsion from school. It's not the place of school districts to threaten parents with jail over such issues. And the parents should consider suing them for not keeping proper records, because such sloppiness puts the children at risk of deadly epidemics.
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Old 05-08-2016, 08:08 PM
 
26,143 posts, read 19,767,810 times
Reputation: 17241
Unhappy *

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48
I am so sorry you experienced this. I could have also been immune compromised from taking steroids prescribed by doctors who were unwilling to look for the cause of my hives but just wanted to treat the symptoms with meds.
I am so sorry......... I literally cried like crazy earlier after ~HecateWhisperCat~ posted that (Saying we should be forced) -- The majority of people are so blinded and taken in by this garbage.......

Im crying again now.....THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT TO ME........

Quote:
Originally Posted by eok
Was it caused by vaccination?
I think it was caused by the build up of toxins over the years YES now that I know what I know about them...

I am so sorry Jo48
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