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Families should have a choice of whether they want their children to attend academic schools or social reform schools.
Sounds like another of those black/white, on/off, yes/no, one/zero statements to me. As if every school is 100% one or 100% the other. It's just possible that both types of schools focus on core academics. This part sounds a lot like the idea that schools exist to train good employees for corporations, as I read it, by the way. It's then possible that one type of school explores an additional layer of personal and social consciousness issues, while the other one simply doesn't. Maybe then the real choice that parents would be offered is whether their child should receive a complete education or not...
Are you trying to conclude that educational monies to run these programs are wholly funded from other budgets? Staffing? Materials? Administration?
And you are wrong about health care. I personally remember having one or two immunizations rendered right at school. Why? Because there was concern that many kids did not have access to doctors to get those required shots. In my case it was because my mother was unable to take time off of work, but that point is not withstanding.
You are correct that there are administrative costs to the breakfast and lunch programs. However, in my district, the food services budget is 1.86% of the total budget. Granted, I know these little pieces add up, but this is a tiny amount of money in a budget of 8.9 million. School health services in Colorado do not provide immunizations. In fact, these days, immunizations are supposed to be complete by age 2, with a set of boosters required before kindergarten entry. Another tetanus booster is required in 6th-10th grade (1 shot total). People who can't affored immunizations can get them at the county health departments, and sometimes at their dr's offices if their dr has agreed to be a state provider. Re: your comparisons with Europe, I don't know enough about the European system to comment, though I have "heard" they don't serve meals there. How true this is, I don't know. The school breakfast/lunch program is an outgrowth of the old "surplus food" program, where surplus agricultural products were given out to the poor and the schools.
Quote:
Originally Posted by roseba
Not to refute or support any claim in this post, but what is good for an "undergraduate" degree, is not good for a SPECIFIC degree. None of the top 10 of this list were top contenders for my major in college.
I agree. I had a conversation with my DH about this once, pointing out that Cal Tech did not offer my major, thus it would have done me no good to go there.
That would assume that one accepts that schools are failing. That has been a mantra promoted since 1957. But delving deeply into the evidence proves that to be untrue.
Our students lag other countries' students on numerous measures, including tests that measure original thinking and problem solving abilities.
The PISA tests assessed the ability to apply classroom knowledge to real-world problems. This was particularly true for the problem-solving test. Solution of the problems was only possible with original thinking. Logical processes had to be creatively applied to novel situations and the students had to explain the reasoning behind their solutions. The United States came in dead last among 20 advanced nations and well below the international average, as shown in Figure 4. In contrast, students in many Asian nations performed superbly."
Quote:
That isn't to say that some schools aren't bad. But there are also a lot of really great schools. We graduate more people than we did in the "golden age" of education, and we measure more people compared to a time when only 1% of students even took the SATs. It's easy to read the headlines and not delve into the actualities.
What "golden age" of education?
The fact is that we graduate a smaller percentage of our students than do most other advanced nations - and our students still rank at or near the bottom on international comparisons.
Figure 7 shows the percentage of the typical secondary school leaving age population that has actually finished secondary school for 20 advanced nations. The United States actually graduates a lower fraction at the typical graduation age than do most other advanced nations."
The PISA tests assessed the ability to apply classroom knowledge to real-world problems. This was particularly true for the problem-solving test. Solution of the problems was only possible with original thinking. Logical processes had to be creatively applied to novel situations and the students had to explain the reasoning behind their solutions. The United States came in dead last among 20 advanced nations and well below the international average, as shown in Figure 4. In contrast, students in many Asian nations performed superbly."
Again, apples to oranges. Many of these countries "weed out" students before they ever get to the point of taking these tests.
I thought this thread was primarily about Grade School, Middle Schools, High Schools - Public Schools. How did it morph into a discussion about colleges and universities - where there are a lot of private higher education centers already?
My question is - what is best for the CHILDREN??? Where can the CHILDREN get the BEST education?
It seems much of the discussion is about turf wars -
Quote:
Originally Posted by backfist
I think because the OP suggests that private sector grade schools could function like the private college and university system.
And while that's not the best thing for chidren, it's the best thing for political ideology.
It was because someone claimed that colleges were being overtaken by foreigh students.
Sounds like another of those black/white, on/off, yes/no, one/zero statements to me. As if every school is 100% one or 100% the other. It's just possible that both types of schools focus on core academics.
Possible, but not likely.
Archived: A Nation At Risk (http://www.ed.gov/pubs/NatAtRisk/risk.html - broken link)
And, the 1999 sequel, A Nation Still at Risk:
http://www.eric.ed.gov/ERICDocs/data/ericdocs2sql/content_storage_01/0000019b/80/17/8c/68.pdf (broken link)
"Abstract: In 1983 the National Commission on Excellence in Education declared the United States "A Nation at Risk" because of inadequate education. A decade and a half later, the United States is still at risk because U.S. schools are failing children. Dropout rates have declined, and college attendance has risen, but student achievement has remained flat and college remediation rates have risen to unprecedented levels. The United States is the only country in the world in which children fall farther behind the longer they stay in school. In fact, a dual school system is developing, with a widening gap between good schools and poor schools. Poor and minority children usually go to worse schools, and their families have the least power to alter bad situations. Power over the education system has increasingly concentrated in the hands of a few who really don't want change. Equal educational opportunity is the next great civil rights frontier. The main strategies for change should center on standards, assessment, and accountability and allow for pluralism, competition, and choice to ensure the best for all children." (emphasis mine)
I re-read it, and I think it's more "how to lie with statistics". If Norway is graduating 100% of its high-school age students, some people are obviously not being counted in the statistics.
According to what I have read, Japan does not provide special ed services; they tell the parents to take their kids out of school if they can't learn by their methods. Then they don't count in the statistics.
Last edited by Katarina Witt; 02-18-2008 at 07:15 PM..
Reason: add Japan
I re-read it, and I think it's more "how to lie with statistics". If Norway is graduating 100% of its high-school age students, some people are obviously not being counted in the statistics.
According to what I have read, Japan does not provide special ed services; they tell the parents to take their kids out of school if they can't learn by their methods. Then they don't count in the statistics.
The stuff I read about Japan was some time ago, when my own daughter was having difficulty learning to read. She is now 20, graduated from high school in the top 10% of her class, is in college making the Dean's List and is hoping to go to med school. At the time, I was appalled that I would be told to take her home and teach her myself in Japan. And anytime you see 100%, you know something is fishy. I believe I read it in some sort of scientific journal. Scientific American was hot on education for a while. Back then, *everyone* thought Japan had the best system ever. You don't hear so much about that now.
Last edited by Katarina Witt; 02-18-2008 at 07:37 PM..
Reason: addition
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