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Um no your parents taught you right from wrong making moral decisions have nothing to do with religion.
If you need the threat of going to hell to be a good person then your truly lost.
The 10 commandments are just common sense The first four are the only ones that state anything about God.
You can have morals and not be Christian. I don't mean to defame Christians, but your parents and personal compassion shape your morals much more than religion. There are many individuals with morals who do not have religion. Conversely, there are many Christians who are amoral.
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
68,329 posts, read 54,389,283 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bryan85
My father spent 4 years fighting the japanese (including being a pearl harbor survivor) in the pacific- that in itself is enough to make me care. You do not know my beliefs- I have no idea when Jesus will return. He in fact stated the same during his time on earth. If you're an unbeliever, then you cannot help but be ignorant of Christianity. I do not know what it's like to be an atheist, and would not claim that i might know more about it than someone who is.
By that logic, one who doesn't believe in unicorns couldn't help being ignorant of them existing in folklore. I believe there are many who accept Christ as a historical figure and a source of good advice about life whether they accept him as the one true God or not.
The love and caring side if religion is fine, but the punishment side ruins it. We could have love and caring without fear of punishment. This would be a higher human philosophy
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
68,329 posts, read 54,389,283 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldDocKat
The love and caring side if religion is fine, but the punishment side ruins it. We could have love and caring without fear of punishment. This would be a higher human philosophy
I believe there are far too many examples in history where fear of punishment was all about a particular religion controlling its people and had nothing to do with God.
You are correct in that many are incorrect or ignorant of The Bible. Reading Gods Word if you are an unbeliever- your understanding will be very limited. Without Gods Holy Spirit in our heart to help us discern, it's simply head knowledge- no different than reading a history book. You may take offense, it's not intended.
You mean if you believe in the Holy Spirit, you can interpret the Bible to suit yourself.
I think America's strongest, best and most enduring values are -- freedom, reason, tolerance. These were the values of our liberal (in their day) founding fathers, and these are the values we should keep. Are these Christian values? Not necessarily, although they are not incompatible with Christianity.
George Washington was a Christian. He adhered to these values. In fact, he expressed them eloquently in a letter he wrote to the Jewish community in Newport, Rhode Island. Here's a passage:
The United States has “a Government which to bigotry gives no sanction, to persecution no assistance—but generously affording to All liberty of conscience, and immunities of citizenship: - deeming every one, of whatever nation, tongue or language equal parts of the great Governmental Machine: – This so ample and extensive federal union whose basis is Philanthropy, mutual confidence, and public virtue, we cannot but acknowledge to be the work of the Great God, who ruleth the Armies of Heaven, and among the Inhabitants of the Earth, doing whatsoever seemeth [to Him] good.”
Given these sentiments, it's easy to see what side of the debate he'd be on today on whether or not we should fully embrace the Muslim American community.
Roger Williams went even further. When he founded the colony of Rhode Island, he explicitly included atheists and Muslims in his intent to create a colony of absolute religious freedom.
And it was Rhode Island that later single-handedly stalled ratification of the Constitution until the First Amendment was written and ratified. As soon as the First Amendment was ratified, Rhode Island went ahead to be the last state necessary to ratify the Constriction.
It was also Roger Williams who both founded the first Baptist congregation in the US and also coined the phrase "wall of separation between the garden of the church and the wilderness of the world" that Jefferson later rewrote as "wall of separation between church and state" to Williams' Baptist theological descendants.
If you cannot embrace the basic ideals of the Three Religions of the Book without being coerced by the threat of Hellfire and Damnation you really need to examine your own sense of right and wrong. Being a decent person does not involve religion, it only requires a sense of decency.
In my town, NONE of the druggies or really bad dudes are going to church on Sunday morning. They have decided they don't need church: the drugs and life of crime will suffice quite nicely, thank you.
None of my Christian friends are calling me up at 3 a.m. pleading with me to help them score.
By that logic, one who doesn't believe in unicorns couldn't help being ignorant of them existing in folklore. I believe there are many who accept Christ as a historical figure and a source of good advice about life whether they accept him as the one true God or not.
Faith is not logic based, and that is why so many reject Jesus for who He is- God.
You mean if you believe in the Holy Spirit, you can interpret the Bible to suit yourself.
Before I was a believer, that is exactly what I did. It made very little sense. Now, God speaks to me personally thru His Word. He can only do that through His Holy Spirit- when His Spirit resides in ones heart due to believing.
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