Do you think college's should be free? (heroin, marijuana, retirement)

[Burger Fan]

Originally Posted by NewGuy2016

I guess public education (or private) failed you. State/local taxes have only been around since the early 1900s, and federal taxes since 1913 (albeit briefly in the 1890s) - yet our country had adequate infrastructure for the time. Oh and get this..they had roads too (obviously not the interstate system - Pres Eisenhower initiated that in 1956, primarily to expedite military movements across country).

So yea - at one time, the American citizen was entrusted to pay for their own stuff...crazy eh?

Note I didn't say anything about state/local, or federal. I said "taxation." Taxation has always existed in this country. Income taxes are relatively new, but Tarriffs and Excise taxes (which are ALSO taxation, whoops!) are not.


The US constitution explicitly gave the federal government the power to tax in 1789, and Washington signed the first tax act that same year.

The Tariff Act of 1789, was the first major Act passed in the United States under its present Constitution of 1789 and had two purposes as stated in Section I of the Act which reads as follows;
"Whereas it is necessary for that support of government, for the discharge of the debts of the United States, and the encouragement and protection of manufactures, that duties be laid on goods, wares and merchandise:"The Federal legislature, acting under the recently ratified US Constitution, authorized the collection of tariff and tonnage duties to meet the operating costs of the new central government, to provide funds to pay the interest and principal on revolutionary war debts inherited from the Continental Congress. It also provided a degree of protection. "The protective acts of the states furnished the experience on which the national legislators based their proceedings. The general range of duties was by no means such as would have been thought protective in later days; but the intention to protect was there.
The debates over the purpose of the tariff exposed the sectional interests at stake: Northern manufacturers favored high duties to protect industry; Southern planters desired a low tariff that would foster cheap consumer imports.The final bill extracted concessions from both interests, but delivered a distinct advantage to maritime and manufacturing regions of the country.

The boston tea party incident that was one of the catalysts for the Revolutionary war was over...wait for it...taxation without representation. edit: and I forgot about PROPERTY TAX:

Property taxes in the United States originated during colonial times. By 1796, state and local governments in fourteen of the fifteen states taxed land, but only four taxed inventory (stock in trade). Delaware did not tax property, but rather the income from it. In some states, "all property, with a few exceptions, was taxed; in others, specific objects were named. Land was taxed in one state according to quantity, in another according to quality, and in a third not at all. Responsibility for the assessment and collection of taxes in some cases attached to the state itself; in others, to the counties or townships." Vermont and North Carolina taxed land based on quantity, while New York and Rhode Island taxed land based on value. Connecticut taxed land based on type of use. Procedures varied widely.


During the period from 1796 until the Civil War, a unifying principle developed: "the taxation of all property, movable and immovable, visible and invisible, or real and personal, as we say in America, at one uniform rate."During this period, property taxes came to be assessed based on value. This was introduced as a requirement in many state constitutions.

Great Britain was taxing the hell out of the colonies before the US was even a thing. Obviously the economy has changed to the point where we cannot fund everything that needs to be funded with import and sales taxes, but taxation is taxation. Go back to the roman empire if you want, they had taxes there, too.


So who has education failed? me or you?

[krug]

NO NOT FREE, nothing is worth anything unless you earn it. On a more personal note, if you make it free, grandfather my expense and that of my 2 children, should be about 100k.

Also, on the topic of free, is this just tuition, or tuition, fees, books, meals, room, transportation, lab costs, technology expense, tablets, pens and pencils and paper, calculators, phones, etc. I guess this is never explained.

[eye state your name]

Originally Posted by Cliftonpdx

Well that is how public schools work, the admissions are all subsidized by the tax payer, as it should be because public education is for the public.

I agree with you are far as grades 1-12, but after that, all of society does not benefit from someone else's career choices.

[NewGuy2016]

Originally Posted by Burger Fan

Note I didn't say anything about state/local, or federal. I said "taxation." Taxation has always existed in this country. Income taxes are relatively new, but Tarriffs and Excise taxes (which are ALSO taxation, whoops!) are not.


The US constitution explicitly gave the federal government the power to tax in 1789, and Washington signed the first tax act that same year.





The boston tea party incident that was one of the catalysts for the Revolutionary war was over...wait for it...taxation without representation.

Great Britain was taxing the hell out of the colonies before the US was even a thing. Obviously the economy has changed to the point where we cannot fund everything that needs to be funded with import and sales taxes, but taxation is taxation. Go back to the roman empire if you want, they had taxes there, too.


So who has education failed? me or you?

I answered your question...your own question

When exactly "in the past" were there no taxes and people "paid for their own stuff?"

- and now you want to revise it? We can play that too if you'd like.

I'm glad to know you at least know why the US even into existence...that's breath of fresh air.

The Roman empire? I'm surprise you didn't say Somalia....eh. At least you're original.

James Madison, the chief architect of the Constitution, wrote in Federalist Paper #45: "The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined.” The 16th Amendment has gutted the limits on government and enabled lawmakers and bureaucrats to turn the simple act of collecting taxes into a vast and complex tool of social engineering.

Education has served me well, to answer your last question (unless you revise it too).

[petch751]

Originally Posted by RunD1987

However, do feel employers should offer tuition reimbursent and some type of program to offer some assistance with loans. State gives them incentive/tax breaks if they do something along those lines.
.

Let me see. If I need to hire someone. Which one do you think I'll choose?

A). I can hire someone who's college is already paid for,
B). Or hire someone who I am required to reimburse your college costs.

Why don't you just talk employers out of hiring the young????

[Burger Fan]

Originally Posted by NewGuy2016

I answered your question...your own question - and now you want to revise it? We can play that too if you'd like.

I don't think you did. There WAS no time in this country when there were "no taxes." The federal government funded itself with tariffs and excise taxes from day 1. States and counties funded themselves with property taxes.


When all were just "colonies" they were STILL being taxed by great Britain. If there is a centralized government of ANY sort, there are taxes to go along with it. Feel free to find evidence to the contrary, though I imagine you'll be fishing a while.

I'm glad to know you at least know why the US even into existence...that's breath of fresh air.

*I* do, but it looks like you missed that lesson. The colonies were fine with taxes. It was the lack of representation they had an issue with. Taxes have always been part of this government, and are built into article I of the constitution.

[saltine]

Originally Posted by Burger Fan

Income taxes are at historic lows not seen since the Truman administration. So yes, an increase in funding somewhere back to a time that better represents the era we actually live in would be preferable.


Federal Income Taxes on Middle-Income Families Remain Near Historic Lows | Center on Budget and Policy Priorities

Im guessing somebody pays very little to no tax property tax? It will do no good to argue with some people. Our schools are in financial straits every year supposedly... and some want to pile on more.. just crazy

[pknopp]

Originally Posted by eye state your name

That is NOT how it works. The Constitution does not place the issues of health care and college within the hands of the federal government!! National security IS the role of the federal government.

If we are not using tax dollars for National Security purposes, then the taxpayers should not have to turn over their earnings to the government to fund select groups who want "free stuff."

There were no national security issues in Iraq.

[LibertyandJusticeforAll]

If you think any service should be free please understand the TERM FREE.
If I buy something and then you give it to someone else is that FREE?
Where did the BUY something part become magic...

NOW if you would like People of their OWN free will give you free education WILLINGLY without FORCE government taxation. Then sure you can have education at no cost.
Government funded education is not FREE.

Which is what these crazy people call FREE and for some reason they think if they tell us college should be free it will happen. Government force is never free and is never FREEDOM.

[Burger Fan]

Originally Posted by saltine

Im guessing somebody pays very little to no tax property tax? It will do no good to argue with some people. Our schools are in financial straits every year supposedly... and some want to pile on more.. just crazy

I pay plenty chief. Own my own home, have for years.


Property tax however is a local issue- some states don't have property tax at all, and it's deductible from your federal taxes even if your state is one that levies it. How useful that is to you is going to depend a lot on your personal financial situation.


More useful to talk of taxation and tax burden at the federal level because of that. If you're aware of a study that can compare historical property tax burden though, I'd love to see it.