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Old 05-13-2016, 09:02 AM
 
1,100 posts, read 630,152 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
"Should black folks ALWAYS vote?"


Everybody should always vote in every election that applies to them. Everybody has a civic duty to vote. Just because you are disgusted with the parties and the candidates does not relieve you of this duty to vote. You may have to vote for the lesser of two weevils but you still have that duty.

And that last sentence makes the rest irrelevant.
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Old 05-13-2016, 09:02 AM
 
28,610 posts, read 18,647,663 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant View Post
You just do not get it. Not voting as a STRATEGY, is what we are talking about. Not voting as a strategy has the goal of waking up a party to OFFER us something or we will not help them win. That may mean we allow that party to lost an election so that the next election they will come with a platform that RESPECT and REPRESENTS our needs.
Well, the majority of blacks who can vote already don't--so simply failing to vote is apparently not an effective strategy. It's clearly not conveying the intended message.


The problem is that neither party is actually dependent on the black vote, particularly not in national elections. Either party can win without the black vote, as long as it captures the white independent and swing voters...which is the only way the Republican party has won any presidential elections since 1960.
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Old 05-13-2016, 09:05 AM
 
13,806 posts, read 9,664,202 times
Reputation: 5243
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
"Should black folks ALWAYS vote?"


Everybody should always vote in every election that applies to them. Everybody has a civic duty to vote. Just because you are disgusted with the parties and the candidates does not relieve you of this duty to vote. You may have to vote for the lesser of two weevils but you still have that duty.
Give me a good argument of why a political party would represent my interest if they knew that if I were to vote, that I would vote for that party because I had no other choice? Give me a good argument why black folks, using their vote as a block, abstaining from voting, would not result in a political party that is dependent upon them coming back the next election with overtures? What is wrong with my logic?
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Old 05-13-2016, 09:10 AM
 
13,806 posts, read 9,664,202 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizualizax90 View Post
Thank you sir. Every other group understands you get a tangible AGENDA from these politicians on what they will do to benefit them and only then do you give them a vote. Black folks are the only ones that do it backwards. We spread love and give it up to any Democrat that comes along and then later were twiddling thumbs saying "watcha gonna do for us?" Which is why we're in the position were in. These democrats play the game of "oh yea well help minorities *air quotes*" and then they pass policies to benefit the white guy that's 1/25th Cherokee and the guy that looks like Zac Efron but says he's Hispanic.

It's called leverage. It's just like business, if you want customers to patronize you, meet their standards.
Yeah.....and we cannot break free of this unless we get away from the mantra that we must vote as a duty or obligation. That just perpetuates politicians not buying our vote. Why should they buy it when its free? Who will do that? The Democratic party feels that by selling out blacks, they can pull in more whites (independents and others).
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Old 05-13-2016, 09:16 AM
 
1,100 posts, read 630,152 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
Well, the majority of blacks who can vote already don't--so simply failing to vote is apparently not an effective strategy. It's clearly not conveying the intended message.


The problem is that neither party is actually dependent on the black vote, particularly not in national elections. Either party can win without the black vote, as long as it captures the white independent and swing voters...which is the only way the Republican party has won any presidential elections since 1960.

I'd like to see some statistics to support that claim. From the limited research I did persuing stats from Cornell University, Pew Reseach Center and ultimately, the census bureau - The black vote was 13% of the 2012 general election...in which 93% went to President Obama.

Of course we could drill down into those stats even deeper by state, districts - but to say either party isn't dependent on the black vote to win...that's a stretch imo. Again, unless you have statistics to prove that claim.
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Old 05-13-2016, 09:31 AM
 
28,610 posts, read 18,647,663 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewGuy2016 View Post
I'd like to see some statistics to support that claim. From the limited research I did persuing stats from Cornell University, Pew Reseach Center and ultimately, the census bureau - The black vote was 13% of the 2012 general election...in which 93% went to President Obama.

Of course we could drill down into those stats even deeper by state, districts - but to say either party isn't dependent on the black vote to win...that's a stretch imo. Again, unless you have statistics to prove that claim.
You just proved it: The black vote was 13% of the 2012 general election.


Remember that presidents are elected by electoral college, not by popular vote (note that Bush actually lost the popular vote in 2000). The question is what impact the black vote would have on the electors selected from each state.


The black vote is split in states where it is either an even less significant minority in states that ultimately voted Republican (primarily southern states) or a significant minority only in states that ultimately voted Democrat (northern and more urban states).


Drop the black vote out of each state, and each state winds up going for the same candidate it would have selected anyway.
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Old 05-13-2016, 09:35 AM
 
1,100 posts, read 630,152 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
You just proved it: The black vote was 13% of the 2012 general election.


Remember that presidents are elected by electoral college, not by popular vote (note that Bush actually lost the popular vote in 2000). The question is what impact the black vote would have on the electors selected from each state.


The black vote is split in states where it is either an even less significant minority in states that ultimately voted Republican (primarily southern states) or a significant minority only in states that ultimately voted Democrat (northern and more urban states).


Drop the black vote out of each state, and each state winds up going for the same candidate it would have selected anyway.

- the margin of popular vote was less than 4%

- I stated we could drill down into state/districts if we wanted to venture the electoral route.

- Still you're making claims with no validation. I'm not saying you're fabricating an opinion - but without statistics to support a claim like that, why should anyone believe it?
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Old 05-13-2016, 02:06 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
13,562 posts, read 10,302,481 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizualizax90 View Post
Again, for the Asians they are testament to that whether it was a Democrat or a Republican in office they still thrive economically along with the education among their youth. Which goes to show you it's not about the incumbent it's the mentalities of the people. In a capitalist free enterprise society, let me do what I need to do and use my skills and I'll be ok. I don't need some president to determine my fate in this type of system.

I'm not sure if you're black as well, but if you are then you'd know that we are always looking for some savior to save us rather than individually getting ourselves together. This is why even though I didn't vote I really wish Trump would get in office. (He's not going to, Hillary is the shoe-in) but Trump would have black people start to put the thinking caps on.
Well, not all Asian communities are thriving economically. The Hmong, for example, are struggling, but that has a lot to do with being a refugee community. On the other hand, in any case, just being comfortable is not an excuse to be complacent about public affairs.

If you don't get civically engaged, and show elected officials you care, your interests either will at best get overlooked, and at worst get hurt. Sure, Asian Americans are touted as the "model minority" but there is a very cynical undertone to that - it's used to attack other ethnic groups, and it ignores the fact that Asians can get scapegoated depending on larger events.

You think Japanese Americans are complacent about politics after being put away in camps during WWII?

Remember the Wen Ho Lee affair? Because of Bill Richardson's actions in that, he's gotten a pretty chilly reception from Asian Americans when he tried to run for the presidential nomination afterwards. Some phone calls to some folks in the incoming GW Bush administration was able to scotch Chris Cox's bid for a judgeship. It's certainly politicized Lee's daughter, who became a lawyer and activist because of the controversy.

I will agree that it has to do with the mentalities of the people, but I think turning one's back on civil affairs is not the right mentality. And wishing that Trump will get elected is like inviting the fox into the henhouse to save it. Not a good idea!

Point is - you gotta be at the table when policy is being made, or you're going to be lunch.
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Old 05-13-2016, 03:21 PM
 
13,806 posts, read 9,664,202 times
Reputation: 5243
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
Well, the majority of blacks who can vote already don't--so simply failing to vote is apparently not an effective strategy. It's clearly not conveying the intended message.


The problem is that neither party is actually dependent on the black vote, particularly not in national elections. Either party can win without the black vote, as long as it captures the white independent and swing voters...which is the only way the Republican party has won any presidential elections since 1960.
I do not agree with that. I too will need evidence of this lack of dependence. I think that it is true that the typical Republican voter...ie...the white male.....is becoming a smaller percentage of the population. The demographics of the nation favor a shrinking base for republicans, while the growth of the Hispanic population is creating LESS dependency of the democratic party on blacks. In the future blacks will have little political influence, especially as we migrate south and our votes are canceled out in red states, unless black migration can turn those states blue.

I think in times where Republicans have just shown their arses....like when "W" was president, the democrats were not dependent upon the black votes because enough white people, independents, turned against the Republicans. If independents lean Republican, then the Democratic party will be dependent upon the black vote to swing a victory, if the independents lean democrat, then the Democrats will really not be that dependent upon blacks.
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Old 05-13-2016, 03:59 PM
 
28,610 posts, read 18,647,663 times
Reputation: 30880
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant View Post
I think in times where Republicans have just shown their arses....like when "W" was president, the democrats were not dependent upon the black votes because enough white people, independents, turned against the Republicans. If independents lean Republican, then the Democratic party will be dependent upon the black vote to swing a victory, if the independents lean democrat, then the Democrats will really not be that dependent upon blacks.
How do you think Reagan got elected? The Democrat union vote went to Reagan. As I said, the swing voters are more key than the black vote.
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