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Old 05-16-2016, 07:09 PM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
39,019 posts, read 27,408,388 times
Reputation: 15938

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Y2Jayy View Post
I have never stated that the military should not get the benefits that it does right now. All I am saying is that everyone should get the same benefits as the military does. A Canadian civilian has healthcare and education benefits. So does a member of the Canadian military. Is Canada a failed state, is it going bankrupt? Is the military pissed that the civilians are getting the same benefits as they are?
The bolded, What is your point? You are the one who brought up military. Why don't you bring up other profession?

Microsoft has a well-documented level system that has most graduates coming in at Level 59, the first rung of the SDE/SDET/PM I band. For these candidates, expect:
Salary: 102-105k
Stock: 50K, 3.5 year vest with first cliff at six months, and every anniversary of your hiring thereafter.
Signing & Hiring Bonus: 10k, with 5k grossed up at time of signing, and 5k in first paycheck.
Relocation:I read there is the option of either a small lump sum in the 3-5k range, and having a specialist handle your relocation, or taking 15k and handling it yourself.

I cannot be jealous because I am not a microsoft engineer. Their salary and compensation package are EARNED, and their salary is determined by market value. Same rule applies to the military service men and women.

STAY FAIR AND INFORMED

 
Old 05-16-2016, 07:14 PM
 
155 posts, read 100,821 times
Reputation: 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
Should you get their salary too? As already pointed out the benefits are part of the compensation for your time. You can argue about whether they should or should not get those benefits, you can't argue you should get them too because you have done nothing to earn them.
You think healthcare is compensation, and something that could be contingent on your particular job, or whether you've done anything to earn it. I don't. I don't think I should have to do anything to "earn" these benefits other than be a taxpaying citizen of a modern nation. A citizen of Canada does not have to do anything to earn their benefits other than through paying taxes. I understand that it's not how things are done here in America. But look at things from beyond just the confines of our own nation - would you tell a Canadian citizen that they didn't do anything to "earn" their healthcare? You'd get a blank stare - over there, healthcare isn't something to be earned. It's something you have by virtue of being a citizen of Canada who pays taxes to fund the services.

Again, if you look at healthcare as being something like the police or the military, as do most other first-world countries (and even third-world ones), saying that someone doesn't deserve free healthcare at the point of service because they didn't "earn it" is absurd, just as it would be absurd for a police officer to send you a bill for their services because you didn't "earn it." There's nothing to do to earn these services. Being a citizen is enough.
 
Old 05-16-2016, 07:15 PM
 
26,302 posts, read 14,905,638 times
Reputation: 14480
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadianvegan View Post
He was not a PM. Danny Williams had surgery in Florida because his condo was close by. You Americans always use that excuse.
He had surgery in the US, because the US has most of the top hospitals in the world. Otherwise, he would have stayed put in his home for the surgery and not paid $$$$$$ to do it.

Look, I admire what Canada has done and America will one day have a universal healthcare system too, but don't blow hot air and ignore the upsides to what we currently have.
 
Old 05-16-2016, 07:17 PM
 
26,918 posts, read 15,131,411 times
Reputation: 11927
Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganmoon View Post
Military members are ultimately government employees - this is a form of compensation.




Without it the pay package would really be bad compared to the already low pay by itself.
 
Old 05-16-2016, 07:20 PM
 
26,302 posts, read 14,905,638 times
Reputation: 14480
Quote:
Originally Posted by Y2Jayy View Post
You think healthcare is compensation, and something that should be contingent on your particular job, or whether you've done anything to earn it.
No I don't.

I am saying that factually the military receives healthcare as compensation, period. And it is asinine for you to literally claim that you and your rights are being discriminated against because government employees (military) gets a compensation that non-employees (you) don't get.

Your logic is crap, which is why Bernie doesn't use it.

If you want to support a national healthcare system than do so through the justification of it being morally sound, doable, and the possible benefits to small businesses. Don't do it through asinine logic about how you are being oppressed, because government employees are compensated with it.
 
Old 05-16-2016, 07:21 PM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
39,019 posts, read 27,408,388 times
Reputation: 15938
Quote:
Originally Posted by Y2Jayy View Post

Again, if you look at healthcare as being something like the police or the military, as do most other first-world countries (and even third-world ones), saying that someone doesn't deserve free healthcare at the point of service because they didn't "earn it" is absurd, just as it would be absurd for a police officer to send you a bill for their services because you didn't "earn it." There's nothing to do to earn these services. Being a citizen is enough.
job seekers who don't negotiate or ask questions are likely shortchanging themselves, especially if they don't know the salary range of the job position or the value of the benefits package.

The reality: Both may be malleable, which is why negotiating a good compensation package is the culmination of a successful job search process.

I sincerely hope someday, for your own sake, you learn how to negotiate a good compensation package instead of thinking everything should be given to you freely simply because you are paying a little tax.
 
Old 05-16-2016, 07:22 PM
 
155 posts, read 100,821 times
Reputation: 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981 View Post
The bolded, What is your point? You are the one who brought up military. Why don't you bring up other profession?

Microsoft has a well-documented level system that has most graduates coming in at Level 59, the first rung of the SDE/SDET/PM I band. For these candidates, expect:
Salary: 102-105k
Stock: 50K, 3.5 year vest with first cliff at six months, and every anniversary of your hiring thereafter.
Signing & Hiring Bonus: 10k, with 5k grossed up at time of signing, and 5k in first paycheck.
Relocation:I read there is the option of either a small lump sum in the 3-5k range, and having a specialist handle your relocation, or taking 15k and handling it yourself.

I cannot be jealous because I am not a microsoft engineer. Their salary and compensation package are EARNED, and their salary is determined by market value. Same rule applies to the military service men and women.

STAY FAIR AND INFORMED
I am saying that healthcare isn't something that should be earned, or considered as compensation, unless it is premium healthcare like medically unnecessary plastic surgery or high-end skin treatments. I think access to basic healthcare should be free for everyone at point of service, and that there is nothing to be earned, except through the rights of citizenship. Just as nobody has to earn the right to have a military or a police force OTHER THAN paying taxes and being a citizen of the nation that you are paying taxes to.

You have this strange mentality that everything needs to be earned. Yes, in a state of nature, everything needs to be earned. If you want food, you have to either grow it, kill it, or buy it. But there's this remarkable thing called civilization - where we all agree to come together to provide for services to all citizens in exchange for taxation. The idea's worked remarkably well, and it's not going away any time soon. The whole point of paying taxes is that you don't have to do anything other than pay the taxes. I don't have to earn free police protection at the point of service. I am saying, why should I have to do anything other than pay taxes to fund a healthcare system to get free healthcare at the point of service?
 
Old 05-16-2016, 07:23 PM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
39,019 posts, read 27,408,388 times
Reputation: 15938
Quote:
Originally Posted by Y2Jayy View Post
I am saying that healthcare isn't something that should be earned, or considered as compensation, unless it is premium healthcare like medically unnecessary plastic surgery or high-end skin treatments. I think access to basic healthcare should be free for everyone at point of service, and that there is nothing to be earned, except through the rights of citizenship. Just as nobody has to earn the right to have a military or a police force OTHER THAN paying taxes and being a citizen of the nation that you are paying taxes to.
In an ideal world, there is no need for a military. In an ideal world, nobody is getting sick. The ideal world is perhaps called heaven.

You are living in a fallen world, simply paying a little tax is not enough.
 
Old 05-16-2016, 07:26 PM
 
Location: Pacific NW
9,437 posts, read 7,339,244 times
Reputation: 7979
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadianvegan View Post
Yep. It's not fair. In Canada we have free healthcare and life is awesome here. Too bad you guys don't have the same thing, I wish you did.
Another liberal who has no idea what "free" means. Stay in Canada, in fact take some of your political brethren with you.
 
Old 05-16-2016, 07:26 PM
 
69,368 posts, read 63,935,278 times
Reputation: 9383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Y2Jayy View Post
I don't believe I deserve anything other than equal rights. I merely believe that all citizens should be treated equally under the law.
They are treated equally under the law. Want those things, join the military.. dahhh
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