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What a mindless comment. How will a poor, small country pay for its own defense? Or should it be ignored because it cannot afford to pay?
The world cannot afford to be without a policeman.
No one else is going to do it. No one.
Despots everywhere need to be aware that action will come swiftly and without apology. Innocent victims of military weapons need to know that they have someone they can count on, and the owners of those military weapons need to know that they are in deep ka-ka.
We should always be stationed in friendly countries and we should always be ready to strike.
#1 We are $19,300,000,000,000.00 in debt and counting. Perhaps we can't afford it?
#2 Our allies have taken us for suckers. They can spend a little less on their military and more on helping their own people, because we are there with a big stick and alliances to defend them
#3 We have 52,060 soldiers in Japan, it hasn't dipped below 50,000 soldiers since the end of WWII, 71 years ago.....should we have 50,000 soldiers there in 2087?
We have 24,899 soldiers in South Korea, we've pretty much had 25,000 or more soldiers in South Korea since the end of the Korean War in 1953.
We have 36,691 soldiers in Germany....it has been that way since the end of WWII, 11,799 in Italy, 62,753 in Europe as a whole.
The EU dwarfs Russia in population and GDP, why do they need the US to protect them from Russia? They can pick up their own tab, we don't need 62,753 soldiers there continuously with the costs of transportation, more soldiers than we need, etc...and those soldiers spend their money abroad.
#4 CNN criticized Trump by saying that South Korea pays HALF the billeting costs of US soldiers in South Korea...big freaking deal! We have more soldiers than the US needs to protect itself to protect them, we have to pay to ship them there, they then spend much of their money their, we even rent some, not all, of our facilities from South Korea...we are getting ripped off.
I do think a lot of those places can reduce or completely do away with troops being stationed there. Europe for example should not need any US troops in such numbers. The GDP and Population of European NATO countries is in par with the US, there is no reason why we should be stationing so many troops there.
South Korea is another example. SK towers over NK in terms of population and GDP. There is no reason the US needs to station so many troops, if any, there. Sure, no formal treaty has been declared from the Korean War, but I do not see how NK is a serious threat to the US in any which way. Let SK handle them, we can easily support from afar if needed.
Japan, absolutely ridiculous to station so many troops there.
The Middle East, that is a lovely one. About as far away from US borders as possible in this world, yet we have a large presence there. I do not see the need for such a presence. It must be nice for the Saudi Kingdom to practice one of the most brutal regimes in the world under US protection, and spend money on gold plated Lamborghinis instead of defense. You want to sell your oil on the global market? The you go and protect it.
I do see the need for bases and troops, just not where many are at now and not in the alignment it is in, which is really left over from WW2 and the Cold War. There is need for support for our naval fleet and air forces.
Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganmoon
#1 We are $19,300,000,000,000.00 in debt and counting. Perhaps we can't afford it?
#2 Our allies have taken us for suckers. They can spend a little less on their military and more on helping their own people, because we are there with a big stick and alliances to defend them
#3 We have 52,060 soldiers in Japan, it hasn't dipped below 50,000 soldiers since the end of WWII, 71 years ago.....should we have 50,000 soldiers there in 2087?
We have 24,899 soldiers in South Korea, we've pretty much had 25,000 or more soldiers in South Korea since the end of the Korean War in 1953.
We have 36,691 soldiers in Germany....it has been that way since the end of WWII, 11,799 in Italy, 62,753 in Europe as a whole.
The EU dwarfs Russia in population and GDP, why do they need the US to protect them from Russia? They can pick up their own tab, we don't need 62,753 soldiers there continuously with the costs of transportation, more soldiers than we need, etc...and those soldiers spend their money abroad.
#4 CNN criticized Trump by saying that South Korea pays HALF the billeting costs of US soldiers in South Korea...big freaking deal! We have more soldiers than the US needs to protect itself to protect them, we have to pay to ship them there, they then spend much of their money their, we even rent some, not all, of our facilities from South Korea...we are getting ripped off.
Vote Hillary if you want the status quo on this.
1 - One reason is the impact on their local economy. Only way to really withdrawal is a smart phase out style....a mass withdrawal would cripple the majority of those local economies.
2 - Vote for Hillary or Trump if you want status quo. Neither are going to withdraw from our forward operating bases.
What effect do you think a global withdrawal (and thus, downsizing) of our military would have on countries we're currently at odds with; such as Russia, China, North Korea, Iran, etc?
1 - One reason is the impact on their local economy. Only way to really withdrawal is a smart phase out style....a mass withdrawal would cripple the majority of those local economies.
2 - Vote for Hillary or Trump if you want status quo. Neither are going to withdraw from our forward operating bases.
1 - Perhaps those countries could spend their own money on their own local economies, rather than us continue to rack up $19,300,000,000,000.00 and counting in debt to be the world police.
2 - Trump is saying the status quo on this issue is unacceptable. Hillary is saying that Trump's position is dangerous and jeopardizing our friendships. Hillary has not proposed a single change on this issue. In fact, she was part of the Obama administration, which INCREASED our NON-COMBAT zone military bases and deployments. We shouldn't have to pay them to be their friends.
What effect do you think a global withdrawal (and thus, downsizing) of our military would have on countries we're currently at odds with; such as Russia, China, North Korea, Iran, etc?
Nothing.
- The forces we have deployed now really would not do anything if a full scale, total war scenario happened with any of those countries.
- Since the deployed forces are not enough, forces would have to be deployed anyway, so why pay for such mass amounts of deployed forces.
As I mentioned earlier, it is a good idea to maintain an overseas presence, such as naval and air support facilities, but you do not need 52,000 troops to do this.
1 - Perhaps those countries could spend their own money on their own local economies, rather than us continue to rack up $19,300,000,000,000.00 and counting in debt to be the world police.
2 - Trump is saying the status quo on this issue is unacceptable. Hillary is saying that Trump's position is dangerous and jeopardizing our friendships. We shouldn't have to pay them to be their friends.
1) Those economies i'm referencing, largely exist due to the military and bases there. They provide jobs, and the SMs/contractors/GS employees spend $$ out on the economy, since they live there.
2) Trump says a lot of things...sometimes he says this and that on the same issue. At this point, Trump is a full fledged establishment politician. Hillary's criticizing Trump - that's cute.
I don't disagree about the debt - however, there's countless other ways to dramatically reduce spending, than to recklessly pull all SM/contractors/GS employees and close the forward bases without doing a drawn out phase down. Especially when the military isn't even the largest budget item in question. It's the third largest.
What effect do you think a global withdrawal (and thus, downsizing) of our military would have on countries we're currently at odds with; such as Russia, China, North Korea, Iran, etc?
Russia - complete domination of Ukraine, Belarus, Caucasus (Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan), and all of Central Asia. Very bad relations with the EU and a possible military containment policy led by France, UK, and Sweden.
China - complete domination of South China Sea, probable integration of Taiwan, sphere of influence of Southeast Asia and perhaps South Korea. Japan will probably team up with India, Australia, and the Philippines to contain China from extending its power any further.
North Korea - complete subjugation by China. With the US withdrawal, there will no longer be any need for China to give unconditional aid to North Korea. China will probably force North Korea to give it access to ports for naval usage in the Sea of Japan (this will frighten Japan). China will also ask for significant mining concessions all over the country in exchange for aid. China will also guarantee South Korea's independence which will make reunification impossible.
Iran - sphere of influence over Iraq and Iran. Will also engage in an arms race with Gulf Arab states. Iran might even begin to fund separatist Shiite groups and terrorist groups across the Gulf such as in Bahrain.
Russia - complete domination of Ukraine, Belarus, Caucasus (Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan), and all of Central Asia. Very bad relations with the EU and a possible military containment policy led by France, UK, and Sweden.
China - complete domination of South China Sea, probable integration of Taiwan, sphere of influence of Southeast Asia and perhaps South Korea. Japan will probably team up with India, Australia, and the Philippines to contain China from extending its power any further.
North Korea - complete subjugation by China. With the US withdrawal, there will no longer be any need for China to give unconditional aid to North Korea. China will probably force North Korea to give it access to ports for naval usage in the Sea of Japan (this will frighten Japan). China will also ask for significant mining concessions all over the country in exchange for aid. China will also guarantee South Korea's independence which will make reunification impossible.
Iran - sphere of influence over Iraq and Iran. Will also engage in an arms race with Gulf Arab states. Iran might even begin to fund separatist Shiite groups and terrorist groups across the Gulf such as in Bahrain.
And a whopping 52,000 troops stop all of this? Yea right.
52,000 troops, even if all of them were combat troops, would not stop Russia from doing what it really wants. As I mentioned, our troops would not be able to stop anyone, we would need a massive deployment of forces. So since we need forces deployed anyway, I see no reason to keep some token amount anywhere.
It's easy to say bring our troops home from other countries. But even though we spend billions to keep bases around the world. Isn't this creating jobs for our own citizens? I highly doubt that if they closed 100 military bases around the world that these troops would simply "come home" & work on a base in the states. Without all these military bases they probably wouldn't need all these troops.
And a whopping 52,000 troops stop all of this? Yea right.
52,000 troops, even if all of them were combat troops, would not stop Russia from doing what it really wants. As I mentioned, our troops would not be able to stop anyone, we would need a massive deployment of forces. So since we need forces deployed anyway, I see no reason to keep some token amount anywhere.
I think your scenarios are way off base.
I don't disagree with you at all and of course my scenario could be off base. I don't even think the scenario I listed is a good or a bad thing, it is just a return to a sphere of influence system that has defined much of the power system in the past. I don't even think the US will be able to stop it in the end since America's domestic problems might begin to force a withdrawal regardless of what the foreign policy establishment wants.
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