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Old 06-02-2016, 12:16 PM
 
12,735 posts, read 3,228,585 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Wolves In Snow View Post
Yes, they are a very wealthy state, but the problem is, and you failed to mention it, is that 27% of the population, about 9 million people, are struggling in the state. If you're going to tout the good stuff, you need to talk about the bad stuff. Nine million people in ONE state is a LOT of people NOT doing well. For them, CA doesn't feel prosperous at. all.
Good point, and one I always often make about looking at BOTH sides of the ledger, all sides of any issue, but also of course I hardly imagine that people don't know there is poverty everywhere. In fact, as I also note in comment #32, but if you really want to go there...

California is one of the states most heavily burdened by the influx of immigrants and openness for minorities that lots of other states don't need to contend with. Nevertheless, California is also a net positive contributor to federal tax revenues, also different from those states that are net negative draws on those federal reserves. All to say that everything is relative and California doesn't do too badly all considered, especially in light of what conservatives always claim must necessarily come from Democrats and their ways.

This said, California is also a state with too many poor, but also a state that does better than most in terms of addressing that problem, tricky as it is to improve upon when the base of those struggling is always growing...

Poverty, social programs, why? And what are the odds looking forward...
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Old 06-02-2016, 12:38 PM
 
12,735 posts, read 3,228,585 times
Reputation: 1580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Wolves In Snow View Post
How about the dirt poor to the east, south, and north of the coastal cities. Does everything need to be spelled out for you?
Also, taking all citizens into account, the per capita income is worthy of consideration and tends to provide a more appropriate comparison than sheer number of poor in California (also one of the most populace states). On the basis of average household income, again California doesn't do too badly all considered...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ates_by_income
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Old 06-02-2016, 12:57 PM
 
Location: Out West
22,747 posts, read 16,830,942 times
Reputation: 26299
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
Good point, and one I always often make about looking at BOTH sides of the ledger, all sides of any issue, but also of course I hardly imagine that people don't know there is poverty everywhere. In fact, as I also note in comment #32, but if you really want to go there...

California is one of the states most heavily burdened by the influx of immigrants and openness for minorities that lots of other states don't need to contend with. Nevertheless, California is also a net positive contributor to federal tax revenues, also different from those states that are net negative draws on those federal reserves. All to say that everything is relative and California doesn't do too badly all considered, especially in light of what conservatives always claim must necessarily come from Democrats and their ways.

This said, California is also a state with too many poor, but also a state that does better than most in terms of addressing that problem, tricky as it is to improve upon when the base of those struggling is always growing...

Poverty, social programs, why? And what are the odds looking forward...
I really wasn't expecting you to admit it...I did not see post #32 when I replied to one of your other posts. I was quite sure that the reality would be dismissed as if it weren't happening...

I grew up in CA as a kid. My entire family was from CA, although military life brought us to many different states, home base was CA.

I miss THAT CA. Sure, sure, some of it was because I was a kid and didn't have to deal with all the "grown up" stuff, but I remember learning to shoot a gun in CA. That is where I lived when my dad took us out in to the woods and taught us how to shoot at pop cans on a fence. That's the state I lived in when we got back home and he taught us how to clean them and put them back together. That's the state I lived in when we put them back in his room, NOT under lock and key, but out in the open, where we could have easily taken them...but we didn't because he took the time to teach us to respect them. I was six years old.

I miss the CA that was laid back, where people minded their own business, and didn't rag on everyone else who didn't do things exactly like they did. CA used to be a "live and let live state" but that is gone.

The education system in CA used to be so. much. better. When we moved out of that state to another state, we were in advanced classes in many subjects because the schools in CA were that much better. Now what do we get? People who can't even spell, people who can't compose a single coherent sentence.

CA used to have THE BEST water system in the country. Now? Don't get me started on that subject, I just get angry. It's been ruined.

The people are still nice, overall....FAR nicer than just about any place on the east coast and even most of the west coast...at least that is still present...but too much has changed that is not for the better.

I do not agree with sanctuary cities, I do not agree with illegals getting IDs, I do not agree with illegals getting "agricultural housing" at $299 a pop when some poor person, legal citizen, could sure use rent at that price and a job, I do not agree with illegals crowding E/Rs, etc. If they are illegal, they need to be deported. End. When they are ready to come back legally, no problem.

If we put an end to catering to illegals in CA, there would be more money (and jobs) to help the portion of that 9 million who are citizens or legally in this country. CA does have wealth....and that wealth could go so much further without the illegals problem.

And for GOD'S SAKE, stop making it so damn hard for me to conceal carry. Stop telling me I can only own certain types. Stop telling me, 'Oh, you can have a gun, but if you use it, even when in any other state in this nation you would have been justified, we're going to throw you in the slammer'. Stop telling me that I have to run and hide behind multiple barriers in my own home if someone is breaking in. The second that pos has crossed the threshold, FAIR GAME! But not in CA!

Fix the illegals problem, stop messing with 2nd Amendment Rights, get back to the best water system (stop screwing everyone over for a damn fish), enough with the indoctrination, (although admittedly that has been going on since I was a kid...Albertson's supermarket...they gave out free cookies to the kids so we always went when our mom went shopping there....one day, they handed out little "toys" along with the cookies. I got a Richard Nixon pin...I could wear it on my shirt if I wanted. The little Richard Nixon pin had a garbage bag (also made of metal) that you could slide over his face and back off again, if you wanted...and his two arms up and out with his hands doing the peace symbols.

I had no idea who that was. I wasn't even alive when Nixon was president. I have no idea why they gave us kids pins like that. It was fun to flip the metal garbage bag over his face and off again, over and over and over...for about 15 minutes...and that's about the last time I remember knowing where that pin was. But again, I wasn't even alive when Nixon was president...it wasn't like he had just been in the news, or was just impeached, or was just anything...I believe Reagan was president at the time...so wth with a Nixon pin? But a grocery store handed those out to kids. Yeah, indoctrination has been going on for quite some time.)

Those are the issues that have ruined CA for me. It is no longer the state that makes me feel energy and excitement when I cross her borders anymore. I had that for a long time....but when I started to see what they had done to the state...it's like a best friend has died.
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Old 06-02-2016, 01:48 PM
 
12,735 posts, read 3,228,585 times
Reputation: 1580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Wolves In Snow View Post
I really wasn't expecting you to admit it...I did not see post #32 when I replied to one of your other posts. I was quite sure that the reality would be dismissed as if it weren't happening...

I grew up in CA as a kid. My entire family was from CA, although military life brought us to many different states, home base was CA.

I miss THAT CA. Sure, sure, some of it was because I was a kid and didn't have to deal with all the "grown up" stuff, but I remember learning to shoot a gun in CA. That is where I lived when my dad took us out in to the woods and taught us how to shoot at pop cans on a fence. That's the state I lived in when we got back home and he taught us how to clean them and put them back together. That's the state I lived in when we put them back in his room, NOT under lock and key, but out in the open, where we could have easily taken them...but we didn't because he took the time to teach us to respect them. I was six years old.

I miss the CA that was laid back, where people minded their own business, and didn't rag on everyone else who didn't do things exactly like they did. CA used to be a "live and let live state" but that is gone.

The education system in CA used to be so. much. better. When we moved out of that state to another state, we were in advanced classes in many subjects because the schools in CA were that much better. Now what do we get? People who can't even spell, people who can't compose a single coherent sentence.

CA used to have THE BEST water system in the country. Now? Don't get me started on that subject, I just get angry. It's been ruined.

The people are still nice, overall....FAR nicer than just about any place on the east coast and even most of the west coast...at least that is still present...but too much has changed that is not for the better.

I do not agree with sanctuary cities, I do not agree with illegals getting IDs, I do not agree with illegals getting "agricultural housing" at $299 a pop when some poor person, legal citizen, could sure use rent at that price and a job, I do not agree with illegals crowding E/Rs, etc. If they are illegal, they need to be deported. End. When they are ready to come back legally, no problem.

If we put an end to catering to illegals in CA, there would be more money (and jobs) to help the portion of that 9 million who are citizens or legally in this country. CA does have wealth....and that wealth could go so much further without the illegals problem.

And for GOD'S SAKE, stop making it so damn hard for me to conceal carry. Stop telling me I can only own certain types. Stop telling me, 'Oh, you can have a gun, but if you use it, even when in any other state in this nation you would have been justified, we're going to throw you in the slammer'. Stop telling me that I have to run and hide behind multiple barriers in my own home if someone is breaking in. The second that pos has crossed the threshold, FAIR GAME! But not in CA!

Fix the illegals problem, stop messing with 2nd Amendment Rights, get back to the best water system (stop screwing everyone over for a damn fish), enough with the indoctrination, (although admittedly that has been going on since I was a kid...Albertson's supermarket...they gave out free cookies to the kids so we always went when our mom went shopping there....one day, they handed out little "toys" along with the cookies. I got a Richard Nixon pin...I could wear it on my shirt if I wanted. The little Richard Nixon pin had a garbage bag (also made of metal) that you could slide over his face and back off again, if you wanted...and his two arms up and out with his hands doing the peace symbols.

I had no idea who that was. I wasn't even alive when Nixon was president. I have no idea why they gave us kids pins like that. It was fun to flip the metal garbage bag over his face and off again, over and over and over...for about 15 minutes...and that's about the last time I remember knowing where that pin was. But again, I wasn't even alive when Nixon was president...it wasn't like he had just been in the news, or was just impeached, or was just anything...I believe Reagan was president at the time...so wth with a Nixon pin? But a grocery store handed those out to kids. Yeah, indoctrination has been going on for quite some time.)

Those are the issues that have ruined CA for me. It is no longer the state that makes me feel energy and excitement when I cross her borders anymore. I had that for a long time....but when I started to see what they had done to the state...it's like a best friend has died.
Awfully depressing and much here I am tempted to counter as one who has lived most my life here in California, yet to have any problems with immigrants or the ER. In fact, my parents are immigrants...

But I tell you what, you don't go on and on and on about your gun issues, and I'll simply agree that it's not all "peaches and cream" here in California. Fair?

I'll just also simply add, however, that I've been all over the states and plenty times abroad. I've seem some of the most gorgeous places on the planet like Lake Como, and I've been in some of the worst, like parts of Houston, parts of Oakland. I was born in Chicago...

All seen, all told, all considered, I am not able to find any good reason to prefer anywhere else over where I live here in California. Am I biased? I suppose, yes, but with good reason I think...

Also of course, I have lived elsewhere, and there is always making the most of where we call home, in all the ways that matter most to us personally, so this can't really be a contest over where people live or how they want to spend their time.

This thread is simply to point out that all the dire straights conservatives always claim about all things related to Democrats and/or our ways in California are not well founded. That's all...
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Old 06-02-2016, 06:10 PM
 
34,302 posts, read 18,581,780 times
Reputation: 7583
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
Lots of dog lovers in San Francisco and much of the state, like in England, and no doubt with that love goes what comes of the opposite end.

As with most things, you've got to take the bad with the good, or you don't get much of anything worthwhile...
LOL, obviously you did not read the article, or are you calling all homeless dogs? Seems you are...
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Old 06-02-2016, 06:17 PM
 
17,028 posts, read 9,557,055 times
Reputation: 5701
"California Wins ‘Worst State to do Business’ for 11th Year"

California Wins "Worst State for Business" for 11th Year

"Business leaders highlight California state and local government officials’ negative attitudes toward business. CEOs blamed the cost of trying to comply with the state’s “capricious” regulatory system, calling it a job killer, especially for “smaller firms that are the least able to bear the costs.”
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Old 06-02-2016, 06:54 PM
 
9,613 posts, read 4,601,933 times
Reputation: 5470
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesjuke View Post
"California Wins ‘Worst State to do Business’ for 11th Year"

California Wins "Worst State for Business" for 11th Year

"Business leaders highlight California state and local government officials’ negative attitudes toward business. CEOs blamed the cost of trying to comply with the state’s “capricious” regulatory system, calling it a job killer, especially for “smaller firms that are the least able to bear the costs.”
This!
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Old 06-02-2016, 07:07 PM
 
2,852 posts, read 2,971,600 times
Reputation: 1185
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesjuke View Post
"California Wins ‘Worst State to do Business’ for 11th Year"

California Wins "Worst State for Business" for 11th Year

"Business leaders highlight California state and local government officials’ negative attitudes toward business. CEOs blamed the cost of trying to comply with the state’s “capricious” regulatory system, calling it a job killer, especially for “smaller firms that are the least able to bear the costs.”
Must have left NY off the list.
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Old 06-02-2016, 07:23 PM
 
11,717 posts, read 3,203,729 times
Reputation: 3990
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
I mean...

I am just curious how conservatives who rail against all things Democrat, from stifling economic activity to stifling our very way of life, our freedoms, our hopes and dreams, just how do they reconcile the fact that California continues to do fairly well as compared to most states in most ways, now expected to outpace the economic growth of the country looking forward.

Better as well compared to even most countries of which there are less than 10 in the world with bigger economies...
I don't necessarily consider myself 'a conservative', but IMO anyone who uses the phrase 'conservatives who rail' isn't searching for sincere dialogue and may be primarily concerned with a personal agenda. Potentially on the other side for your points...What about (when compared to other states) overall spending per pupil compared to the results that are the end product of that spending? What about the percentage of people in poverty compared to other states?...etc.

Quote:
How is it possible that California didn't come apart economically, morally and in every other way possible long ago? The disaster Republicans are always so concerned about when it comes to all things Democrat should have ended all forms of prosperity in California long ago, right?

Instead?
The degree to which California has come apart morally is a matter of opinion (and I'm not a 'social conservative'...I'm pro choice and 'libertarian' re SSM).
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Old 06-02-2016, 07:38 PM
 
11,717 posts, read 3,203,729 times
Reputation: 3990
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
I do?
Yep.

They just aren't freedoms you wish to exercise, so it doesn't matter to you/you don't care that you can't exercise them.
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