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Old 06-03-2016, 03:36 PM
 
12,661 posts, read 3,213,696 times
Reputation: 1577

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BizrulesSD View Post
I think Jerry Brown's "success" is a bit exaggerated. Read any economic political book and they all state that the executive (Gov, Pres, Mayor) has very little with how the economy performs.

Having said that, I think the issue of illegal immigration is a serious one in which will harm the state in the long run. We no long have the work to support a continued influx of low skilled workers. As automation continues to phase out those jobs these individuals will be a drain on our resources. This is the one issue that continues to bite democrats and why Trump was able to gain popularity. Being a life long republican, I think a lot of what Trump says is garbage but his firm stance on illegal immigration is what has the ability to sway some voters in swing states.

When talking to family in other states, I am utterly shocked at some of the policies enacted and how driven they are by religion. Government should do everything to not limit our freedoms and having arguments about what people SHOULD do shouldn't have a place about what we allow them to do (think gun rights or abortion).
Good point about what Brown really can or can't take credit for, but the real issue is as I posed in the first comment or two of this thread, not so much about Brown specifically but in terms of all the dire straights conservatives tend to assign to all things related to Democrats, leadership, philosphy, economics, public policy...

Reconciling all those conservative notions always so absolutely "doom and gloom" related to more liberal leaning with a state like California should at least cause most reasonable people to think maybe all that is Democrat is not all that bad.

Not the stuff of "ruining America" and all that sort of thing that all too many conservatives describe as Obama's sole agenda, Democrats too, liberals. Surely there is some middle ground to be had or is the ingrained bias simply too much to overcome?

My Cement Theory.

Most of the time if not always, probably so...
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Old 06-03-2016, 03:40 PM
 
Location: louisville
4,754 posts, read 2,010,733 times
Reputation: 1713
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
Good point about what Brown really can or can't take credit for, but the real issue is as I posed in the first comment or two of this thread, not so much about Brown specifically but in terms of all the dire straights conservatives tend to assign to all things related to Democrats, leadership, philosphy, economics, public policy...

Reconciling all those conservative notions always so absolutely "doom and gloom" related to more liberal leaning with a state like California should at least cause most reasonable people to think maybe all that is Democrat is not all that bad.

Not the stuff of "ruining America" and all that sort of thing that all too many conservatives describe as Obama's sole agenda, Democrats too, liberals. Surely there is some middle ground to be had or is the ingrained bias simply too much to overcome?

My Cement Theory.

Most of the time if not always, probably so...
Your last paragraph... Work on the flip side too?

Labeling oneself with media contrived (not social science developed) definitions... Limit oneself.
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Old 06-03-2016, 04:03 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
31,012 posts, read 13,578,167 times
Reputation: 22100
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesjuke View Post
"California Wins ‘Worst State to do Business’ for 11th Year"

California Wins "Worst State for Business" for 11th Year

"Business leaders highlight California state and local government officials’ negative attitudes toward business. CEOs blamed the cost of trying to comply with the state’s “capricious” regulatory system, calling it a job killer, especially for “smaller firms that are the least able to bear the costs.”
^ lol from Breitbart

Here's another analysis with a different conclusion, it ranks California as 14th out of 50

The Best (and Worst) States for Business - 24/7 Wall St.
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Old 06-03-2016, 04:07 PM
 
21,495 posts, read 11,599,413 times
Reputation: 12268
I remember reading about how successful Venezuela was not long ago. I see California in the same situation in the future. They don't even know if they have drinking water in 6 months
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Old 06-03-2016, 04:09 PM
 
280 posts, read 186,236 times
Reputation: 351
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
Good point about what Brown really can or can't take credit for, but the real issue is as I posed in the first comment or two of this thread, not so much about Brown specifically but in terms of all the dire straights conservatives tend to assign to all things related to Democrats, leadership, philosphy, economics, public policy...

Reconciling all those conservative notions always so absolutely "doom and gloom" related to more liberal leaning with a state like California should at least cause most reasonable people to think maybe all that is Democrat is not all that bad.

Not the stuff of "ruining America" and all that sort of thing that all too many conservatives describe as Obama's sole agenda, Democrats too, liberals. Surely there is some middle ground to be had or is the ingrained bias simply too much to overcome?

My Cement Theory.

Most of the time if not always, probably so...
Isn't this the same message that the liberals are saying about Trump? Clinton's speech yesterday was attacking Trump on how he is going to ruin the US via his foreign policies.

With most policies, it takes decades to determine the true impact of those decisions.

There is also a significant difference between the types of Republicans (fiscal vs socially Conservative). Most people fall pretty close to the center but because of the 2 party system, each group takes a side and goes with it. While I never voted for Obama, I never thought that his intent was to "ruin America". The president and I just have a difference of opinion on some issues mostly as it relates to personal responsibility.

Finally, I can take the same argument about conservatives thinking doom and gloom about CA and reverse it with liberals thinking Texas is a gun loving red neck state where everyone is going to shoot each other.
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Old 06-03-2016, 04:13 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 13,003,748 times
Reputation: 5905
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
California...

Either way you look at it, not bad for a state run by communists and overrun by tree-huggers, immigrants and gays, right?
I'd have NO problem arresting ANY known illegal alien on sight AND arresting those people who help them stay here.

Legal aliens OTOH are usually decent people. "Communists": the American kind; when they mess up, they'll just be thrown out of office. Tree huggers; some are decent but others are nuts. Gay people; again some are decent and others are also nuts.
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Old 06-03-2016, 04:16 PM
 
34,252 posts, read 18,565,170 times
Reputation: 7564
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
^ lol from Breitbart

Here's another analysis with a different conclusion, it ranks California as 14th out of 50

The Best (and Worst) States for Business - 24/7 Wall St.
Maybe you should compare the same years?
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Old 06-04-2016, 07:11 AM
 
12,661 posts, read 3,213,696 times
Reputation: 1577
Quote:
Originally Posted by PullMyFinger View Post
I remember reading about how successful Venezuela was not long ago. I see California in the same situation in the future. They don't even know if they have drinking water in 6 months
Doesn't surprise me someone might come along and compare Venezuela with California, again just about anything to associate California and/or Democratic leadership with the likes of Hugo Chavez and a place that can hardly keep its courts operating, supermarkets open, water and electricity supplies rationed...

Aside from such a ridiculous comparison and/or association, also in terms of economies, Venezuela's on the order of $440 billion, California's more like $2 trillion, I'm curious when it was you were reading "how successful Venezuela was not long ago." No link to that reading, but more what I remember is decades of political coups, and guerilla movements going back to the 1960s, buoyed only perhaps by way of it's one export, oil, the price for which has recently collapsed.

Okay, but in your mind California is like Venezuela now or "not long ago." Thanks for more evidence of those conservative notions and/or feeble attempts at negative propaganda I'm talking about!

Not sure what you're drinking, but the water's fine here...

Last edited by LearnMe; 06-04-2016 at 07:32 AM..
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Old 06-04-2016, 07:14 AM
 
Location: louisville
4,754 posts, read 2,010,733 times
Reputation: 1713
No in so cal. Very hard, minerally like Nevada. You are up way to early! Lol
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Old 06-04-2016, 07:18 AM
 
12,661 posts, read 3,213,696 times
Reputation: 1577
Quote:
Originally Posted by BizrulesSD View Post
Isn't this the same message that the liberals are saying about Trump? Clinton's speech yesterday was attacking Trump on how he is going to ruin the US via his foreign policies.

With most policies, it takes decades to determine the true impact of those decisions.

There is also a significant difference between the types of Republicans (fiscal vs socially Conservative). Most people fall pretty close to the center but because of the 2 party system, each group takes a side and goes with it. While I never voted for Obama, I never thought that his intent was to "ruin America". The president and I just have a difference of opinion on some issues mostly as it relates to personal responsibility.

Finally, I can take the same argument about conservatives thinking doom and gloom about CA and reverse it with liberals thinking Texas is a gun loving red neck state where everyone is going to shoot each other.
Yes, sure, the rhetoric is thick when it comes to politics, and perhaps appropriate to compare how some people believe Trump will ruin America much like others thought that was Obama's agenda. Hard for me to put the two in the same category of comparison without laughing a bit, but okay..., fair enough.

Your point about what time it takes to prove things out is exactly my point about California!

Starting with Obama, for example, we do have at least what time it took to go from the onset of the Great Recession to where we are today despite all the dire conservative warnings from conservatives that Obama would ruin America. Fact is, Obama presided over near eight years of helping America to avoid the certain ruin that Bush handed over to him/us. Also contrary to all the dire conservative warnings related to all things driven by Democratic leadership, California also has some history that is not all that bad all considered, and you can hardly find a state more driven by Democratic leadership.

This is the "reconciliation" I suggest conservatives consider looping back to the first two comments of this thread.
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