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Old 06-06-2016, 11:55 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
27,166 posts, read 29,665,044 times
Reputation: 26656

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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dark Enlightenment View Post
Perhaps in some version of an ideal world, but it does not work that way in any human society that actually exists now. Most people, the world over, have sex without any clear cut verbal asking and granting of permission prior to the act.
And people use body language in some cases to give consent. Unconscious people are giving zero signals and physical cues as they are not participating because they are unconscious. Do you like to have sex with motionless logs? Because that is what Mr. Turner did. She was unresponsive be used she was not awake.
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Old 06-06-2016, 11:58 PM
 
423 posts, read 303,505 times
Reputation: 303
Hopefully justice will be served in prison. Wait what, no prison time!!!
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Old 06-07-2016, 12:07 AM
 
12,632 posts, read 7,545,706 times
Reputation: 23786
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dark Enlightenment View Post
Perhaps in some version of an ideal world, but it does not work that way in any human society that actually exists now. Most people, the world over, have sex without any clear cut verbal asking and granting of permission prior to the act.
Being given an "enthusiastic yes" is what is now being taught. It doesn't' necessarily mean that a "yes" has to be given to continue, but there should be no question that everyone is ready and willing. This way a rapist cannot claim the woman didn't say no, and its not on the victim to stop the attack. And consent is not just a one time thing. Even if you are dating someone, and you have had sex with them before, it doesn't mean you can have sex with them whenever. Even during the act, both participants should be aware of their partner, noticing any physical or emotion cues that might be suggesting that they stop. It doesn't mean you have to constantly be asking if they still want to continue having sex, but if they all of a sudden stop, don't seem as interested, have passed out, or are pushing you away, that is usually a sign to check and see if everything is ok.

This video was posted in another thread. Maybe you should watch it to better understand how consent works.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQbei5JGiT8
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Old 06-07-2016, 12:10 AM
 
12,632 posts, read 7,545,706 times
Reputation: 23786
Quote:
Originally Posted by ihatedcu View Post
Hopefully justice will be served in prison. Wait what, no prison time!!!
If that is supposed to be a prison rape joke, I don't think a thread about a rape victim is the most appropriate place to be making such jokes.
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Old 06-07-2016, 12:15 AM
 
Location: Texas Hill Country
9,809 posts, read 5,482,793 times
Reputation: 8378
I think it is more than rape culture but rather the belief in America that one can talk their way out of anything, be it a traffic offense or a DUI where they have harmed someone or this case. People believe that when the cops catch them, they can know better the cop's job than she does.

What causes this? I don't know but it doesn't only happen in the current era for I saw as a police officer 25 years ago. This case will probably go more to reinforce that belief.
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Old 06-07-2016, 12:26 AM
 
Location: Itinerant
6,244 posts, read 4,172,010 times
Reputation: 4759
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dark Enlightenment View Post
Perhaps in some version of an ideal world, but it does not work that way in any human society that actually exists now. Most people, the world over, have sex without any clear cut verbal asking and granting of permission prior to the act.
Well since you asked I have one hard and fast rule.

The owner has to lead me to chapel by hand.

It works every time, and there's no question that there was 100% consent, because if they won't leadme in, then there's no going into the chapel.

It's not about the ideal world, it's about making smart choices about how you confirm consent, secondly it also gives the other person the chance to confirm the use of a condom.
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Old 06-07-2016, 01:27 AM
 
14,790 posts, read 14,046,235 times
Reputation: 20500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dark Enlightenment View Post
Good point. Yes, people who kill accidentally in drunken brawls are indeed given lighter sentences than those who murder in cold blood.
The was not the point. The point was whether blame is apportioned to the victim in this instance.
But you knew that.
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Old 06-07-2016, 01:54 AM
 
Location: Japan
10,727 posts, read 4,424,866 times
Reputation: 6904
Quote:
Originally Posted by artemis agrotera View Post
The point was whether blame is apportioned to the victim in this instance.
Yes, someone who is out, drunk, and winds up beaten or killed by another drunk person is normally considered somewhat less of an innocent victim than a person who is attacked while sober and going about their normal business.
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Old 06-07-2016, 01:57 AM
 
Location: Japan
10,727 posts, read 4,424,866 times
Reputation: 6904
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
Well since you asked I have one hard and fast rule.

The owner has to lead me to chapel by hand.

It works every time, and there's no question that there was 100% consent, because if they won't leadme in, then there's no going into the chapel.

It's not about the ideal world, it's about making smart choices about how you confirm consent, secondly it also gives the other person the chance to confirm the use of a condom.
In the real world people don't make smart choices or even agree on what a smart choice is. Certainly neither niether of the people involved in this case did anything smart that night.
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Old 06-07-2016, 02:35 AM
 
Location: Humboldt Park, Chicago
2,703 posts, read 2,344,892 times
Reputation: 1733
Quote:
Originally Posted by texan2yankee View Post
I am not discussing this Stanford case specifically. I don't know the details.

Being black out drunk and unaware in public is a choice. Consequences may happen if women choose that option. For women to deny that is stupid or naive and dangerous.
Do we know that nothing was slipped into her drink? Would she be responsible for that?
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